The Knee of Cuddyer

[Edgy MD]

Dreamer, why no Dodgers?

Nimmo: There's a reason to call him up sooner, but I'm not thinking it's a slam dunk case, Conforto being older (by nearly four weeks!) and killing it and stuff.

[Guest 86-Dreamer]

Edgy MD wrote: Dreamer, why no Dodgers? Nimmo: There's a reason to call him up sooner, but I'm not thinking it's a slam dunk case, Conforto being older (by nearly four weeks!) and killing it and stuff.

I dream of Dodgers outfielders too. didn't list them though as was focused on guys on losing teams with expiring contracts. Ethier and Puig seem likely to be dealt at some point and would be nice upgrades but I am guessing Mets won't pay the high price in $ or prospects to land them. I am just hoping they'll spend a couple million and some mid-level prospects on a fill-in.

[Theoldmole]

But everyone hates Puig, right?

[Theoldmole]

I have a question. Sandy says he's willing to overpay for the right player. Now, Sandy has been around the business for a while, and is no fool, and even I (who am a fool) know that the only reason you would say that is if you don't really mean it. So what does he really mean?

[Ceetar]

TheOldMole wrote: I have a question. Sandy says he's willing to overpay for the right player. Now, Sandy has been around the business for a while, and is no fool, and even I (who am a fool) know that the only reason you would say that is if you don't really mean it. So what does he really mean?

maybe he's saying "Try me."

[Benjamin Grimm]

I wonder if he means he'll overpay in talent or in salary, or both.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

TheOldMole wrote: I have a question. Sandy says he's willing to overpay for the right player. Now, Sandy has been around the business for a while, and is no fool, and even I (who am a fool) know that the only reason you would say that is if you don't really mean it. So what does he really mean?

My interpretation of that remark is an attempt to diffuse speculation that the reason Sandy hasn't made more trades was that he doesn't make a deal unless he can "win" it. Asks for too much, offers too little.

[Edgy MD]

That's certainly what I've speculated about him. A hard bargainer.

I interpreted the comment as Sandy taking the heat off his bosses by suggesting that no trade has yet gone down because he hasn't found the deal to help the team, not because the purses are to tight to take on salary.

[Edgy MD]

It's interesting that independent sources have both the Dodgers and the Cubs interested in Niese. It may satisfy Sandy the market analyst to make a deal with at least the hint of a second team bidding.

[ashie62]

Sandy may be too committed to Sandy.

Paralysis by analysis of sorts.

[Edgy MD]

Sandy as A's GM was pretty big on in-season trades.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

It is hard to believe that Conforto would be any worse ha wha the Mets are currenly fielding on a regular basis. He seems to have earned a shot, given the unproductive masses currently on the Mets. If he comes up and struggles, then he can be sent back down and at least he has some insight in what he needs to do to be successful at the major league level in the future.

Regarding Tejada, I believe he has had ample opportunities in the past to show what he could do. I believe he has shown that he is a below average overall for the position. I'm not surprised that he has struggled since becoming the regular shortstop for the team.

[Edgy MD]

There is, however, more than a little wisdom common (if not scientifically verified) in baseball (and other sports � see Freddy Adu) that launching a player on the big leagues prematurely � particularly with the pressure on him to save a team's ship � can be set the player's development back, for the short-term and the long-.

I mean, how many recent batters can we name who've been promoted with only 30 games above A-ball?

I agree that he can't do any worse than Campbell, and likely can't do any worse than Mayberry. He probably can do worse than Cuddyer. But say he stays for three weeks, having stunk as badly as Campbell, that's probably an awful career turn for the guy. And another problem for the team.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

You bring up a good and valid point. There is definitely a risk in promoting a prospect to soon. I guess it can depend on the emotional make up and maturity of the prospect. Some people can weather the storm of a poor showing during an early call up and use the experience gained to motivate them to work harder to prepare for the next level; while others have their confidence shattered and are never able to ultimately succeed at the next level.

An athlete's psyche and confidence can be a fragile thing at times, but I believe it is talent that most determines an athlete's ultimate success.

[Lefty Specialist]

Dilson Herrera is kind of comparable. He'd only had 61 games above A ball when they called him up straight from AA, and while there were bright spots, mostly he struggled. Struggled even more this year (.195).

He's only 21 and has plenty of time to develop yet, but you can't help but wonder if he's been derailed a bit.

[Edgy MD]

Dilson had the advantage of coming up for a September run with no implication that he was there to save anything or do anything other than take his turns and enjoy the catering.

[ashie62]

Top Prospects seem to go from AA straight to the majors of late. See Houston and Minnesota.

I like it. These prospects don't have to sit in AAA sitting with with largely MLB castoffs.

Put Conforto in LF and see if he continues to hit. Its' not like we are married to the promotion.

[Edgy MD]

There's a tremendous amount of precedent going back a long time for top prospects going straight from AA to the majors with little or no time in AAA. What there isn't a lot of precedent for is going straight to the majors with little or no time in AA as well. And 30 games is little time.

[Edgy MD]

Houston:
Carlos Correja (top five overall prospect) had 29 games in AA and 24 in AAA.
Preston Tucker had 125 games in AA and 108 games in AAA.

Minnesota:
Eddie Rosario had 79 games in AA and 23 games in AAA.
Byron Buxton (top five overall prospect) has had 60 games and counting in AA and none as yet in AAA.
Miguel Sano (top 15 overall prospect) had 133 games in AA.

[Lefty Specialist]

Akeel Morris found this out the hard way.

[ashie62]

I am considering Conforto advanced due to his years of the highest level of college baseball.

I don't really believe there is harm at giving him a crack.

[Edgy MD]

Kind of surprised to see the Mets get out of town without the Niese-Ethier deal going down. Niese and Ethier certainly passed their auditions. And Cuddyer and Bolsinger certainly failed theirs. With Carlos Frias DL-bound, the Dodgies are looking hot to act.

[nymr83]

Ashie62 wrote: I am considering Conforto advanced due to his years of the highest level of college baseball. I don't really believe there is harm at giving him a crack.

Putting him on the 40 before he needs to be is a harm in and of itself as that would potentially create a logjam if we needed to promote someone else who wasnt on the 40 later. so if Nimmo is hitting and is either on the 40 or needs to be put there much sooner (i believe this offseason?) anyway, he makes more sense.

[Edgy MD]

There may indeed be no harm. But considering sending guy to the bigs with a month of experience above A+, presumably to be an everyday player, is almost never done, one has to believe there is the potential for harm.

With regard to the alleged precedents from Houston and Minnesota, is there a case I'm overlooking?

[nymr83]

Edgy MD wrote: Kind of surprised to see the Mets get out of town without the Niese-Ethier deal going down. Niese and Ethier certainly passed their auditions. And Cuddyer and Bolsinger certainly failed theirs. With Carlos Frias DL-bound, the Dodgies are looking hot to act.

I don't like it, Ethier might not be the better player, is redundant with Granderson (a left-handed hitter who still owns righties but is better off on the bench vs lefties), and is owed alot more than Niese.

I would go so far as to say that if the Dodgers tried to pass him through waivers I wouldnt even want to put a claim in given how much time and salary is left. Niese meanwhile is actually a decent bargain for a good 3rd/4th starter if you believe that is what he is.

Ethier (33 years old) Contract:
2015:$18M
2016:$18M,
2017:$17.5M
2018:$17.5M club option ($2.5M buyout)
2018 salary guaranteed with 550 plate appearances in 2017

Niese (28 years old) Contract:
2015:$7M
2016:$9M,
2017:$10M club option ($0.5M buyout)
2018:$11M club option ($0.5M buyout)

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I'm not really advocating so much as sensing that something feels ready to go down and the Mets and Dodgers match up well with regard to their assets and liabilities.

[Lefty Specialist]

Absolutely want no part of Ethier, for Niese or anybody else.

[nymr83]

Who says "No"?: Scott Van Slyke for Niese, (Mets eat half this year's remaining dollars and 2-3 mil next year.)

[Ceetar]

Nymr83 wrote: Who says "No"?: Scott Van Slyke for Niese, (Mets eat half this year's remaining dollars and 2-3 mil next year.)

The Mets.

[ashie62]

Scott Van Slyke sux.