Shortstop 2015

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: What? We're not friends? I like stuff. Whatcha got at home? Answer the second question first. I'm not into comic books.

To start, a complete (signed!) collection of "The Magic Is Back" horizontal subway posters.



Got the Frank Taveras one in Spanish even! Talk about porn!

[Benjamin Grimm]

Last night on Mets Hot Stove, Jim Duquette suggested that the Mets might be able to acquire Desmond from Washington by sending Murphy and one of the following: Matz, Plawecki, or Montero. (Duquette's thought is that after signing Scherzer, the Nationals will be looking for some payroll relief. I'm not sure how much this proposed deal would help with that. Murphy will make $8 million this year, and Desmond will make $11 million. Does the difference of $3 million mean all that much to a team that just committed $210 million?)

I'd be inclined to hold back on Plawecki; if they ultimately trade him I'd want more than a one-year guy. Same is true for Matz, so of the three options, I'd prefer including Montero.

Is there a new rule that would prohibit the Mets from getting a draft pick compensation if they traded for Desmond and then lost him to free agency? Or does that new rule only apply to in-season trades? I know there was something about that, but I don't recall the details.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Is there a new rule that would prohibit the Mets from getting a draft pick compensation if they traded for Desmond and then lost him to free agency? Or does that new rule only apply to in-season trades? I know there was something about that, but I don't recall the details.

As long as the player's with his team for the whole pre-FA season, the team gets draft-pick compensation (provided they make him the one-year Qualifying Offer after the season and he rejects it, of course).

Murphy and Montero for Desmond, maybe. Bump it up to Matz or Plawecki, however, and they better be paying Desmond's salary this year.

[Edgy MD]

Bump it to Vic Black, I think.

Washington is short a reliever, and the Mets have Parnell coming back and presumably edging Vic down in the pecking order. Maybe Zach Thornton and Chase Bradford look to be putting some pressure in there from below, so Black might get squeezed out anyhow.

[ashie62]

Edgy MD wrote: I'm not so sure there's such an obvious match there. If the Mets truly are as shortstop-poor as all that, that paucity is projected to be in the short term. In the long term, they look to be potentially graduating four shortstop prospects in the next four seasons. At 19, Monconda doesn't really project to step in and push a team ahead a few games in the standings this year. He certainly could be a teenage wunderkind, stepping in and immediately becoming a core contributor at the big-league level, but that's hardly to be expected. Beyond that, while all agree that he has the footspeed Flores (for instance) lacks, not all the scouts like him at shortstop, and some see him ticketed for second or third. I'm curious about the Segura idea.

Segura is 24 years old. He lost a son late in the season. Although his numbers were abit underwhelming I believe he has quite a bit of room before he hits his ceiling. I like him.

He will not come cheaply. I'm guessing the Brewers would ask for Noah or Wheeler.

A similar shortstop is 22 year old Xander Bogaerts of the Red Sox. He is/was a highly touted prospect. He clocked in with 12 hr 46 rbi .240 ba and a .297 obp and was considered a disappointment by the Sawx.

His cost would likely be about the same as Segura.

Personally, I would take Noah for either and bump Wheeler up for Bogaerts.

[Benjamin Grimm]

If Matz or Plawecki were included, I'd be more interested in Desmond signing an extension than in the Nationals sending $11 million. (The Mets, of course, might very well see it differently.) I'd rather see Plawecki stay with the Mets for another year or so to make sure that d'Arnaud is for real, and then trade him for someone who will have a longer-term impact than a one-year rental.

As for Matz, I would like to keep him. Colon will be gone after the season (if not before) and Niese's health has become questionable. I can easily see a rotation in 2016 with Harvey, Wheeler, Syndergaard, and Matz.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Here's what drives me nuts about all of these shortstop discussions: Remember that article FAFIF posted a few days ago claiming that the Mets will use their relief pitchers mainly to minimize the team's future salary obligations to those relievers? Well, I think the team operates like that at every single turn. Not only did that article not surprise me, but if anything, I'm a little angry with myself for not having thought of that angle before the author did. So that's where my cynical head is at.

So what does that have to do with shortstops? Well, consistent with the Mets frame of mind as portrayed in that reliever piece, I think that all of these team "negotiations" over Desmond and Tulowitzki are calculated dog and pony shows with the sole purpose of fooling the fans and media into thinking that the Mets are making a good faith effort to acquire those shortstops. The whole thing's a total sham as far as I'm concerned.

Everyone and his or her mother has already figured out that it's senseless to trade a top-tier prospect to merely rent out one of those shortstops for just the 2015 season. The Mets need to sign one of those shortstops to a multi-year contract for the potential deal to work. Even Jeff Wilpon must know that. Probably. And the Mets (here we go again) are broke, and ain't spending the thirty or fifty million it's gonna take to get one of those shortstops for a few years. I'd be happy to be wrong, but that's how I see things.

[Frayed Knot]

I think that all of these team "negotiations" over Desmond and Tulowitzki are calculated dog and pony shows with the sole purpose of fooling the fans and media into thinking that the Mets are making a good faith effort to acquire those shortstops. The whole thing's a total sham as far as I'm concerned.

Keeping in mind that most (if not all) of these stories about trades or future contracts for the likes of a Desmond or Tulowitski are coming from fans and media, those who read such stories and then claim that the team was lying or misleading them when they don't happen really need to look in the mirror if they want to know who to blame for their disappointment.

[Edgy MD]

If it's a dog-and-pony show calculated to demonstrated false good faith to display for their fans to return with good will, it's a poorly conceived and profound failure, as everything I'm reading suggests that fans are inferring bad faith and returning it with ill will.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Frayed Knot wrote: I think that all of these team "negotiations" over Desmond and Tulowitzki are calculated dog and pony shows with the sole purpose of fooling the fans and media into thinking that the Mets are making a good faith effort to acquire those shortstops. The whole thing's a total sham as far as I'm concerned. Keeping in mind that most (if not all) of these stories about trades or future contracts for the likes of a Desmond or Tulowitski are coming from fans and media, those who read such stories and then claim that the team was lying or misleading them when they don't happen really need to look in the mirror if they want to know who to blame for their disappointment.

Well, if those "negotiations" never took place, that's another thing.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: If it's a dog-and-pony show calculated to demonstrate false good faith to display for their fans to return with good will, it's a poorly conceived and profound failure, as everything I'm reading suggests that fans are inferring bad faith and returning it with ill will.

So something the Mets did backfired on them even worse than they imagined it might. Shocking. Just shocking.

[Edgy MD]

Maybe so, but whatever Jeff Wilpon is, Alderson hardly seems stupid enough to waste his energy on shadow games that clearly aren't going to work.

I probably got this wrong, but I got the notion that the Desmond offer was initiated by the other teams, anyhow.

[Frayed Knot]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: I think that all of these team "negotiations" over Desmond and Tulowitzki are calculated dog and pony shows with the sole purpose of fooling the fans and media into thinking that the Mets are making a good faith effort to acquire those shortstops. The whole thing's a total sham as far as I'm concerned. Keeping in mind that most (if not all) of these stories about trades or future contracts for the likes of a Desmond or Tulowitski are coming from fans and media, those who read such stories and then claim that the team was lying or misleading them when they don't happen really need to look in the mirror if they want to know who to blame for their disappointment. Well, if those "negotiations" never took place, that's another thing.

The recent stories here are being generated by the likes of Rosenthal - who said that when the three-way deal fell through that the Mets should continue to pursue Desmond and then w/should be forced into giving him a long term deal
- by Medgel who pretty much piggy-backed onto Rosenthal only eliminating parts of it so as to shoe-horn the whole thing into his usual agenda
- and now by Duquette who is clearly just speculating on his own

The only actual story where there were negotiations going on appear to be the three-way where the Mets are reported to have backed away (properly IMO) due to the high price of players not contracts.
The only stories that have come out involving Tulowitski have come from Colorado saying, multiple times now, that there's nothing to them. The Mets, to my knowledge, have said little or nothing on this topic, certainly not recently.

[ashie62]

Flores maintains the lead in the backstretch.

[Guest d'Kong76]

SNY wrote: -Sandy Alderson introduced Cal Ripken Jr. at the N.Y. Chapter of the Baseball Writers of America Awards dinner in New York last night. �It�s a big night for me and for Mets fans, who have been waiting all winter for me to introduce a shortstop,� Alderson joked, before handing the podium off to Ripken (NY Post, Jan. 25). Alderson has repeatedly said all off season that he hoped to acquire an upgrade at shortstop. The Mets been connected in rumor to several high-profile shortstops, including Troy Tulowitzki and Ian Desmond, but now appear likely to again enter Spring Training with Wilmer Flores and Ruben Tejada competing for the starting job.

Funny guy!

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: What? We're not friends? I like stuff. Whatcha got at home? Answer the second question first. I'm not into comic books. To start, a complete (signed!) collection of "The Magic Is Back" horizontal subway posters. [fimg=322]http://www.vintagesportsshoppe.com/photos/qdou1.jpg[/fimg] Got the Frank Taveras one in Spanish even! Talk about porn!

Got one of these over your fireplace? (Ashes included)

[Edgy MD]

Nah, I'm a fan, not a nut.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: Nah, I'm a fan, not a nut.

Sez you.

[Edgy MD]

(sniff...)

[Guest d'Kong76]

Well, we're all pretty nucking futs... I would think that's
something we could all agree on.

[ashie62]

Wilmer Flores will become a golden God.

[A Boy Named Seo]

I still keep thinking about Segura and every time I read the MLBTradeRumors.com the last coupla weeks, it talked of the Brewers chasing Jonathan Papelbon.

Would they be tempted by Mejia + Tejada? Would you?

[A Boy Named Seo]

I still keep thinking about Segura and every time I read the MLBTradeRumors.com the last coupla weeks, it talked of the Brewers chasing Jonathan Papelbon.

Would they be tempted by Mejia + Tejada? Would you?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'd be very tempted to make that deal but I'm beginning to think the Mets actually want Flores in the lineup so we'll have to find a spot for Muffy too

They... They might?

[A Boy Named Seo]

Moving Muff could be the easy part, if 1 or 2 better-than-decent prospects (to go along with the $8M in salary relief) is a fair enough return. The Angels could use him. The Dbacks and White Sox, too. Honestly, the MFY would've been a perfect fit pre-Drew. Sorry, Muff.

[Edgy MD]

Muff is moveable � consistent, versatile, and in the last year of his contract � but he sure ain't going to Milwaukee. They let Rickie Weeks walk (still available, last I checked), confident as they were in his successor Scooter F. Gennett.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Weeks? Hmm. There's an interesting potential minor-league-contract recipient, no? (I mean, not for short, but still.)

[A Boy Named Seo]

Muff is moveable � consistent, versatile, and in the last year of his contract � but he sure ain't going to Milwaukee. They let Rickie Weeks walk (still available, last I checked), confident as they were in his successor Scooter F. Gennett.

Agree w/ you on the Brewers. That's why I think the Angels are our patsies. They can easily absorb Muff's $8M salary, and have Rockies castoff Josh Rutledge at second and Cardinals castoff David Freese at third. So it is then I will make these two fake trades today:

Mets send Daniel Murphy to LAA for 22-year old, AA 3Bman Kaleb Cowart and 19-yo outfielder Natanael Delgado, who made his his pro debut in the Arizona Fall League last year. Neither are 'deal-breakers' for the Angels, sez me.

Then I will, acting on behalf of the Mets again, send Jenrry Mejia, Ruben Tejada, and Cory Mazzoni to Milwaukee for Jean Segura.

In: Segura, 2 kids
Out: Muff, Mejia, Tejada, 1 kid

Shortstop good til 2k19. Second can be Dilson/Flores.

THANKYOUANDGOODNIGHT.

[Edgy MD]

I be trigger-shy. Spaghetti-legged. That's a little more going out than coming in, from my perspective. Can you squeeze a little more out of your partners? Maybe get a minor leaguer who works more as a AAA Wright insurance policy than Cowart does?

Because, among other things, Murphy's role as Wright's backup is not to be overlooked.

[A Boy Named Seo]

Good news, I just flipped Kaleb Cowart to the Indians for Swiss Army Knife infielder Mike Aviles. The Indians do this because they're a cost-conscious middle market team, too (HAHA!) and the $3.5M salary for a declining 33, soon-to-be 34-year old Aviles not good lettuce for them.

Having moved almost $12.5M in the salaries of Muffy, Tejada, and Mejia, the Mets can absorb Aviles' $3.5M, like, no problem.

IN: Segura, Aviles, minor league outfielder (~$4M in salary)
OUT: Muffy, Mejia, Tejada, Mazzoni, minor league 3B (~12.5M in salary)

Also 'IN', my GM of the Year award.