Better Dead than Red IGT 9/6/14

[Zvon]

WHOA!!!!!! Double steal!!!!!! 2nd & 3rd!

[Zvon]

Ohh NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Edgy MD]

I see some pushing.

[Zvon]

Edgy MD wrote: I see some pushing.

Ugh, I really want to. GAHSHIT!

[Edgy MD]

I'm not so certain about that call. FUCK!

[Zvon]

Ugh, reviews kill.

[Edgy MD]

Everything going our way this inning except that fermsshuggin call.

[Ceetar]

woah, a Flores walk.

[Edgy MD]

Mansakes.

Campy wanted nothing to do with those two sliders.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Terry with an umpire meeting. Feh.

[Guest Trachsel My Tears]

Edgy MD wrote: Everything going our way this inning except that fermsshuggin call.

If I understand "fermsshuggin" correctly, you're concerned about the ump's judgment, but it was a good one. Everything's going our way this inning, except for EY's lousy baserunning. The umps got that one right.

[Zvon]

Soupy lookin fastball all the way. And he gets one and swings through it.

Could TC protest the game? I mean, if there is a replay that shows a push. A side view that shows if that indeed happened.

There's no doubt that EYoung was off balance, and even a touch could send him in either direction, but how would that be viewed? A push and a touch are different things, but the result could be the same. He was forced to move in a direction that he had no intention of.

This was at such an important point in the game. Couldn't have been a more crucial call.

One thing I'll say is that the 3rd baseman didn't look like he was trying to push him off the bag. he just hung with him.

[Frayed Knot]

A call like that one is absolutely NOT what anyone who was proposing or advocating replay reviews was thinking of, but once that can of worms is open there's no way to keep those type of minuscule misses from being pulled along in the storm.
As the rule is written it was correct to overturn the safe call. MLB and its fans just need to decide whether they think all the interruptions, fishing expeditions, and micro-managing of these ticky-tacky "injustices" are worth the cost.

[Guest Trachsel My Tears]

If the Mets had picked off 3B the tying run in the 9th on a review call, I doubt this messageboard would be begrudging of an instant of wasted time, somehow.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I prefer to be unhappy with the 1st inning strike-em-out, throw-em-out. Anyway, total dickpunch.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Sucked, didn't go with the plan. Need
to win next nine.

[Edgy MD]

Trachsel My Tears wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Everything going our way this inning except that fermsshuggin call. If I understand "fermsshuggin" correctly, you're concerned about the ump's judgment, but it was a good one. Everything's going our way this inning, except for EY's lousy baserunning. The umps got that one right.

I wasn't convinced but I hear you. Young breaks contact with the bag just to feel the spring in his young legs, he has no one to blame but himself.

[Guest Trachsel My Tears]

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Everything going our way this inning except that fermsshuggin call. If I understand "fermsshuggin" correctly, you're concerned about the ump's judgment, but it was a good one. Everything's going our way this inning, except for EY's lousy baserunning. The umps got that one right. I wasn't convinced but I hear you. Young breaks contact with the bag just to feel the spring in his young legs, he has no one to blame but himself.

I appreciate being heard. Keith was all over EY on that play, "Dead out!", and praising the Cincy 3bman (Negron?) for keeping his glove on EY's body to catch him off the base. The stuff about him pushing him off the base was absurd--the fielder must be allowed to touch the runner with his glove, and there has to be some actual shoving involved, not just touching the runner, to even bring up "pushing him off the bag." If the glove ISN'T touching him, he's safe, and if it's touching him too hard, he's also safe. There must be a large area in between those two where he's out, otherwise you'd never have a tag play made.

[Edgy MD]

I was watching the Reds broadcast, not Keith and the Mets. I thought it was unclear from my angle. The tag hit, as I saw it, after the first spring. The guy relaxed the tag and Young sprung a second time, and he returned the tag in earnest. It wasn't clear to me whether the relaxing removed the tag.

If I had to bet, I'd certainly say he was out, but I didn't see clear and convincing evidence in my replay so I hoped they would defer to the umpire.

[Frayed Knot]

Trachsel My Tears wrote: If the Mets had picked off 3B the tying run in the 9th on a review call, I doubt this messageboard would be begrudging of an instant of wasted time, somehow.

Not calling it a waste of time and I'm not talking about it simply because the ruling went agains the Mets. In fact I admitted that it was the correct call as the rules are being enforced as of this season.
I'm merely saying that I KNOW this kind of call is NOT what replay proponents envisioned when the rule was argued for and implemented but that once you open that box there's no way keep this type of play from being included in the reviews.
The league and the fans just have to decide whether the occasionally corrected obvious botched call (the ones that got replay implemented in the first place) is worth all the delays and/or overturns of calls that virtually no one would have objected to a year ago. And as I type this the final out of the Angels/Twins game is delayed for 2 or 3 minutes while the office back in NYC decides whether the final out was really the final out (it was).

[Guest Trachsel My Tears]

Frayed Knot wrote: Trachsel My Tears wrote: If the Mets had picked off 3B the tying run in the 9th on a review call, I doubt this messageboard would be begrudging of an instant of wasted time, somehow. Not calling it a waste of time and I'm not talking about it simply because the ruling went agains the Mets. In fact I admitted that it was the correct call as the rules are being enforced as of this season. I'm merely saying that I KNOW this kind of call is NOT what replay proponents envisioned when the rule was argued for and implemented but that once you open that box there's no way keep this type of play from being included in the reviews. The league and the fans just have to decide whether the occasionally corrected obvious botched call (the ones that got replay implemented in the first place) is worth all the delays and/or overturns of calls that virtually no one would have objected to a year ago. And as I type this the final out of the Angels/Twins game is delayed for 2 or 3 minutes while the office back in NYC decides whether the final out was really the final out (it was).

I disagree with what you know, or in this case, what you KNOW.

In my view, the rule is there to overrule ANY umpire's judgment call (on particular types of plays, including whether baserunners have been tagged properly) if there is clear evidence that the ump missed something in the moment, which yesterday's 3B base ump plainly did. With all the unnecessary time delays (does Wright REALLY need to adjust his batting gloves and sniff the sweat dripping down his sternum between EVERY pitch?) the few minutes devoted to getting a game-deciding call right seems like a very minor thing to me.

[Frayed Knot]

You're talking about what the rule IS - and on that note the umps* had no choice but to overturn yesterday's call.
What I'm talking about what folks had in mind when they supported the implementation of replay and I'm sure that it was not the intent of most to stop the game for 1, 2, or maybe 5 minutes while evidence was microscopically examined off site to determine whether or not a slider's spikes lost contact with the base for a split-second, or whether a throw had settled into the mitt as the runner hit the base or was still just within the air space of the glove at that moment.

If the league and fans think that the whole of the relay rule is a net positive then fine; they're just going to have to realize that they can't have it halfway.





* or whoever's making these calls in their NY studio - the league is being very UNtransparent about this

[Guest Trachsel My Tears]

Frayed Knot wrote: I'm sure that it was not the intent of most

You seem very sure of things (or to "KNOW" a lot of things) that I'm not at all sure of, or don't KNOW to be factual.

If at the time of adoption, you had asked someone (like the Commissioner) an absurdly specific question like "In an attempted steal where the runner is called safe, but his position and the fielder's position block the umpire's view of the runner coming off the base briefly while the fielder's glove with the ball in it is still firmly touching (but not with excessive force) the runner's body, and the camera clearly shows a moment when the runner's foot is off the base while the glove is on him, would this be included among the plays that this new rule is intended to cover?" , I think the answer would have been "Yes," despite your sureness and your knowledge to the contrary.

[Frayed Knot]

If at the time of adoption, you had asked someone (like the Commissioner) an absurdly specific question like "In an attempted steal where the runner is called safe, but his position and the fielder's position block the umpire's view of the runner coming off the base briefly while the fielder's glove with the ball in it is still firmly touching (but not with excessive force) the runner's body, and the camera clearly shows a moment when the runner's foot is off the base while the glove is on him, would this be included among the plays that this new rule is intended to cover?" , I think the answer would have been "Yes,"

And I'm SURE his answer would have been "Yes" (at least to the degree that any of us can be sure of such things)
My point is that I don't believe most fans & media types who were replay proponents even thought of such conditions when arguing for its adoption because they were too hung up on the grail of correcting obvious goofs. I agree that they SHOULD have seen what was to come, but based on the number of comments we're hearing in this first year of the rule along the lines of: 'well yeah, I was for replay but I didn't think it was going to work like this', I think far too many failed to realize that the concept of limited replay is like trying to stay only slightly pregnant.

[Guest Trachsel My Tears]

We agree completely that many fans were unclear in their expectations.