2014 Yanx - The Crumble Continues ???

[seawolf17]

I posted this on a MFY friend's FB wall when this was first announced, incredulous, and he actually agreed with me on how bizarre it was for Tino and Paul O'Neill to be honored.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Your problem is that you're measuring in WAR, not in TY (True Yankeeness), a metric that takes into account all the intangibles that Martinez and O'Neill brought to the team.

[Frayed Knot]

Both WAR and the TY index ignore that most Yanx fans HATED the acquisitions of both O'Neill & Tino at the time ... but one shouldn't go muddying the waters with too many facts when it comes to these things.

[Frayed Knot]

Yanx lose again this afternoon. That's [u:36eb77se]Five straight[/u:36eb77se] after this sweep courtesy of the suddenly hot (7 wins in last 8) Rays and following losses in the last two games of the weekend to Boston.
And what this does is drop them below .500 (about time since they've got a nearly 40 RS/RA deficit this year) for the first time this season since being 5-6

The bigger question is: I wonder when was the last time they were at sub-.500 in the 2nd half of a season?
They've had some bad starts before even in some of their dominant years (the year Zimmer had to fill in for Torre comes to mind) but eventually righted the ship before too long meaning that we may have to go back to the early '90s to find them under the midpoint past July 1st

I'm sure one of the writers will be on this by tomorrow - and if I get the time and inclination I just may look it up myself because, yeah, if I can dig up that kind of shit I'm just the type of guy who'll get down and roll around in it for a while.

[Guest d'Kong76]

There are 'reports' that Alex Rodriguez was given
permission by MLB to take steroids.

[Frayed Knot]

d'Kong76 wrote: There are 'reports' that Alex Rodriguez was given permission by MLB to take steroids.

That claim is supposedly put forth in an upcoming book: BLOOD SPORT: Alex Rodriguez, Biogenesis, and the Quest to End Baseball's Steroid Era -- Tim Elfrink & Gus Garcia-Roberts, due out next week.

Don't know if these authors are pro (paid by?) one side or the other or if they claim to be objective reporters.

[Frayed Knot]

Frayed Knot wrote: The bigger question is: I wonder when was the last time they were at sub-.500 in the 2nd half of a season? They've had some bad starts before even in some of their dominant years (the year Zimmer had to fill in for Torre comes to mind) but eventually righted the ship before too long meaning that we may have to go back to the early '90s to find them under the midpoint past July 1st

The only report I've read so far says that this is the latest in the season they've been under .500 during the Girardi era - but I'm sure it goes back much further than that.

[Frayed Knot]

The bigger question is: I wonder when was the last time they were at sub-.500 in the 2nd half of a season? They've had some bad starts before even in some of their dominant years (the year Zimmer had to fill in for Torre comes to mind) but eventually righted the ship before too long meaning that we may have to go back to the early '90s to find them under the midpoint past July 1st The only report I've read so far says that this is the latest in the season they've been under .500 during the Girardi era - but I'm sure it goes back much further than that.

And the answer about when the last time the New York Yanquis were below .500 after July 1st turns out to be ... ... when they were 42-43 after losing in extra innings to the Blue Jays on 7/7/07 (not so lucky a day after all, eh?)

Funny that I don't remember them struggling so much in the 1st half of that season [9-14 in April, 13-15 in May despite Mussina, Pettitte, Clemens, CM Wang (the good version) a still-good Posada, Jeter, Cano, ARod, Matsui, and the arrival of a savior named Joba] in what would turns out to be Torre's final season. Of course they then went on to go 56-28 over the 2nd half finishing 94 wins and the Wild Card (before a 1st round loss to Cleveland).

Prior to that we need to go all the way back to when they were 60-61 on 9/5/95 - before going on to finish 19-5 and win the first ever AL Wild Card

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: There are 'reports' that Alex Rodriguez was given permission by MLB to take steroids. That claim is supposedly put forth in an upcoming book: BLOOD SPORT: Alex Rodriguez, Biogenesis, and the Quest to End Baseball's Steroid Era -- Tim Elfrink & Gus Garcia-Roberts, due out next week. Don't know if these authors are pro (paid by?) one side or the other or if they claim to be objective reporters.

I read the excerpt someone quoted. It seems legit and all. Very few people get the exemptions for non-Adderall substances, but a handful do every year it seems, A-Rod being one of those, though it's hard to believe the testosterone deficiency wasn't caused by previous steroid use, which is usually not enough to get an exemption according to the book.

I'm sure the rest of the book goes into it more but the bigger 'issue' I'd think is that Biogenesis was completely confident they could beat the testing system, and that they DID beat the testing system. That hadn't occurred to me previously, which probably should've been the bigger issue all along. not that A-Rod and others were taking stuff, that it was clearly very very possible to take stuff and not get caught.

That's one clinic. One network. How many others are there around the world? What's everyone else taking? The biggest failing of Jeter as captain is not making sure to hook up A-Rod with the more discrete guys.

It's all a joke. This is like putting those stupid useless scanners in airports under the guise of security (or the impending torture MLB plans to add to stadium entry next year). Adds nothing, is all for show.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: ... but the bigger 'issue' I'd think is that Biogenesis was completely confident they could beat the testing system, and that they DID beat the testing system. That hadn't occurred to me previously, which probably should've been the bigger issue all along. not that A-Rod and others were taking stuff, that it was clearly very very possible to take stuff and not get caught.

Well, some of them DID get caught.
When the Biogenisis papers got released and named names, several of those names (including Colon) had already been nabbed by the testing process. Others were caught only via the paperwork.
And this whole testing process is always going to be a game of cat and mouse. I don't believe that makes the testing system a joke, just not perfect.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: It's all a joke. This is like putting those stupid useless scanners in airports under the guise of security (or the impending torture MLB plans to add to stadium entry next year). Adds nothing, is all for show.

I'm going to say it's not particularly like that at all.

The weird thing about folks criticizing the anti-steroids regime of MLB is that you can find folks citing both players getting caught and players not getting caught as evidence the system isn't working.

[Frayed Knot]

One of the players who helped keep the Yanx afloat, particularly in the absence of ARod, was the surprise early season performance of Yangervis Solarte.
He became a bit of a presence on the prospect boards too with YLDBs pestering the editors about why Solarte wasn't landing higher on the various prospect lists. The replies were that he's 26 y/o (27 next week) journeyman with not much positional value who had shown nothing in the minors that showed he was capable of sustaining his initial success.

And, indeed, after hitting ~.300/.370/.460 (17 XBH) in April & May, he crashed to around .150/.280/.200 (3 2Bs) in June/July leading to a demotion to the minors as of today.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: ... but the bigger 'issue' I'd think is that Biogenesis was completely confident they could beat the testing system, and that they DID beat the testing system. That hadn't occurred to me previously, which probably should've been the bigger issue all along. not that A-Rod and others were taking stuff, that it was clearly very very possible to take stuff and not get caught. Well, some of them DID get caught. When the Biogenisis papers got released and named names, several of those names (including Colon) had already been nabbed by the testing process. Others were caught only via the paperwork. And this whole testing process is always going to be a game of cat and mouse. I don't believe that makes the testing system a joke, just not perfect.

ahh, I never realized there were caught by the testing process too. Sometimes they play that stuff fairly close to the chest for best interest. (not suspending them until the did they went through the paper trails too) I never understood why they don't suspend a guy immediately upon failed test. This was previous CBA now, but remember Mota failed his test late in 2006 and they didn't suspend him until the offseason.

Still, A-Rod did not fail a test, and Bosch told him "You won't fail a test".

Baseball really doesn't care at all about what their players are using, just that they look like they care.

[Edgy MD]

Disagree.

[Edgy MD]

And Alfredo Aceves gets a 50-game suspension from the league for drug use --- or so the league can look like they care.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: ahh, I never realized there were caught by the testing process too.

Some of those named in the Biogenesis records were, others were not.



" Sometimes they play that stuff fairly close to the chest for best interest. (not suspending them until the did they went through the paper trails too)"
-- That's not what happened. Those who were caught via testing were suspended then. Those who were caught via leaked paper trails were suspended after the processing of that evidence came out. Those named in Biogenesis who were previously suspended because of testing did not receive a second suspension.



"I never understood why they don't suspend a guy immediately upon failed test."
-- Because there's an appeal process if the player wants to use it. Normally you don't even hear of a positive test until after the appeal has played out, so a guy getting suspended today may have come up dirty weeks ago. In the Biogenesis situation, because the info came via a public newspaper and not from within MLB, that process was largely flipped around.



"Still, A-Rod did not fail a test, and Bosch told him "You won't fail a test".
-- Again, no one is claiming the the testing process is perfect. But that's hardly the same as saying it's nothing but a show pony.



"Baseball really doesn't care at all about what their players are using, just that they look like they care."
-- I don't believe that's even remotely true.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: ahh, I never realized there were caught by the testing process too. Some of those named in the Biogenesis records were, others were not. " Sometimes they play that stuff fairly close to the chest for best interest. (not suspending them until the did they went through the paper trails too)" -- That's not what happened. Those who were caught via testing were suspended then. Those who were caught via leaked paper trails were suspended after the processing of that evidence came out. Those named in Biogenesis who were previously suspended because of testing did not receive a second suspension. "I never understood why they don't suspend a guy immediately upon failed test." -- Because there's an appeal process if the player wants to use it. Normally you don't even hear of a positive test until after the appeal has played out, so a guy getting suspended today may have come up dirty weeks ago. In the Biogenesis situation, because the info came via a public newspaper and not from within MLB, that process was largely flipped around. "Still, A-Rod did not fail a test, and Bosch told him "You won't fail a test". -- Again, no one is claiming the the testing process is perfect. But that's hardly the same as saying it's nothing but a show pony. "Baseball really doesn't care at all about what their players are using, just that they look like they care." -- I don't believe that's even remotely true.

Well, I was sarcastically exaggerating when I said it's _all_ for show. But it's not a stretch to believe that MLB's major reason behind drug testing is a public image one. Players have fought for that edge, chemically or otherwise, since the game began. And they still are. There are plenty of extremely potent things players can take perfectly legally with basically MLB's blessing, even without resorting to the myriad of Biogenesis type clinics around the world.

They'll stick with the policy and punish the guys that fail, it's not like they have real incentive to care whether it's Aceves on the roster or someone else. They'll hunt down the "bad guys" like A-Rod and assign him arbitrary penalties to make themselves look tough on drugs. They've committed to having the "most comprehensive" drug testing in sports.

But it's still a PR campaign, and no one even knows how much some of this stuff actually helps performance. Or is something that's even bad for the body. Is it wrong to take a substance that will take you heal and recover faster? Worse than taking (legal) stuff that numbs pain so you can play through otherwise painful injuries that you wouldn't be able to? Why is one set of drugs illegal while others aren't? What's the different? It's more about looking tough than it is trying to create some sort of safe workplace or level playing field.

[Edgy MD]

It sounds like you're not exaggerating at all.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: And Alfredo Aceves gets a 50-game suspension from the league for drug use --- or so the league can look like they care.

Minor league suspension for using pot is hardly about creating a level playing field or ridding the game of drugs.

[Frayed Knot]

What's more is that it sounds like if they catch and punish guys, either by testing or by outside evidence, then you interpret it as evidence that its nothing but pr rather than them caring, and yet if they fail to catch and punish guys it's Proof that it's all for show and that they don't care.
Sounds like you've got yourself an air-tight case right there.

The bottom line is, that in barely a decade's time, MLB has gone from no testing and a union that refused to even consider the topic or admit that there was a problem, to no-penalty testing, to light penalty testing, to the toughest testing in any sport and the most players suspended in any sport, to a union which requested yet still harsher penalties (even though it was between CBA negotiations) upon seeing the latest round of guilty players going on to sign contracts after their suspensions were complete.

[Ceetar]

no, the failing to catch and punish guys is simply an example of how easy it is, and why the idea that the game is clean as compared to 1998 or 2001 is just silly. But that's how I perceive MLB's drug policy, as a patch on that supposed blemish. Part of this of course, is writer-driven.

They do certainly seem more apt to get something banned, like HGH, that's got a PR stigma over drugs that may actually be more damaging, like say Toradol.

[Frayed Knot]

But they ARE finding and punishing guys.
All of them? ... Of course not. What percentage? ... I have no freakin' idea and I don't know if anyone does.

But is there a number that need to be caught before you no longer dismiss the system as show and tell or do you reach the conclusion first and then adjust the data accordingly?
And if you say they're not really interested in catching anyone what is it you think they're not doing? Not testing when they claim they are? Ignoring positives? Finding positives but not acting?
And while you can dismiss all the Aceves types you want, you also need to acknowledge that some of the most recent names include the likes of Braun, Rodriguez, Peralta, Cruz, Ramirez, Colon, etc.

[Edgy MD]

I don't get it. One of the most amazing players in the game's history, a 40-40 Gold Glove shorstop who, heading toward becoming the All Time Homerun King while playing for the flagship franchise in the sport, has been all-but-banished, humiliating him, his image-proud team, and the culture of the game. A whole generation of superstars --- Clemens, McGwire, Sosa.... guys with numbers that make most Hall of Famers look silly --- have been actively outed by the league after their careers, leaving them with this huge embarrassment every January when the Hall of Fame votes are tabulated and the giants are ignored.

What exactly would demonstrate commitment to you? Or do you not want any commitment, so you see any effort as lacking in credibility?

Even with the salary relief, the Rodriguez situation alone has cost the Yankees and the league tens of millions of dollars.

[Frayed Knot]

Yanx find an at least temporary cure for their losing ways in the same place they always find it -- the Twins; but at the same time Sabathia's rehab has been shut down due to knee soreness and swelling which not only will likely be season-ending but has phrases like 'micro-fracture surgery' and 'career threatening' being thrown around.

And while there is always, even in cases involving the Yanquis, the concern about never wishing injuries on anyone, the one element of legit schadenfreude here goes back to when Johan Santana was constantly injured at a time when Sabathia was making every start and all the 'un-named MFY sources' (and by extension some of the fans) who took credit for waiting out the Santana trade in order to focus on CC the next year because they claimed to know--not THINK mind you, but KNOW--how fragile Johan was and how the much bigger Sabathia was destined to be the more durable. Knew it all along they did, going back to before either were yet available.

Well now your guy, who will turn 34 y/o next week and already forced you into one contract extension beyond the original signing, has an ERA of around 5.00 over his last 40 starts going back to the beginning of 2013 and is owed some $65 million going forward despite the fact that you geniuses don't know when, or how well, or even IF he's going to pitch again. So I think I'm perfectly within the bounds of proper decorum in asking; How does THAT rancid pair of size 62-waist pinstripes taste you smug dickwads?
Oh well, maybe you can work out a deal for Samardzjia? ... oh wait, no you can't!

[Frayed Knot]

The Yanks have also DFA'd Alfonso Soriano, who has had the good grace to be outhit this year by Chris Young. And Eric Young. And Ruben Tejada. And Jacob deGrom.

Looking at the stats for Soriano, he had almost exactly the same # of ABs this season as he had last year for the Yanx after being dealt mid-year ... but the results were very different.

	AB	H	2B	HR	BA	OBA	SLG
2013	219	56	8	17	.256	.325	.525
2014	226	50	15	6	.221	.244	.367

And of course when he was playing well last year there was the usual smugness about how 'He always plays well for us'.
Yeah he does ... except for when he doesn't.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Ceetar wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Fuck Tanaka anyway. 7/155 Plus $20 to the Japanese team. The Yankees are like a kid who see a shiny toy and must have it. Sure, sometimes it's a good toy, but they better hope that toy doesn't yield a lot of ground balls, particularly to the left side.

Oh, guess who needs an MRI

[seawolf17]

lolyankees

[Frayed Knot]

Didn't see any of their game last night (when the seriously, I just used a racist word when I really meant "Guardians" hit Tanaka up for 5 runs) but caught about a minute of Francesa's intro today and he was saying it was the first time all year that Tanaka looked less than good ... and then added, 'he looked pretty bad in fact' (10 hits, a couple of HRs, etc.)
Don't know whether the MRI is in response to something he's actually feeling or from Cashman et al deciding that if he's not dominant then he must be injured like he's some sort of high performance sports car and they need to go under the hood and find out why it's not purring quite right.

But if HE ain't gonna be winning games for them on a regular basis in the 2nd half ...

[Guest sharpie]

Now I'm hearing Tanaka has "discomfort" and is being sent back to NYC for an MRI.

[Ceetar]

Hey, any word on if Jeter is going to this All-Star game or finding an excuse to bow out?