Who Am I? & The Dedication & Re-creation of Butterball Field

[batmagadanleadoff]

Zvon wrote: I knew we saw this guy (cripes this is a long thread to look thru). And I said the same thing, Rader. Ha. Dave Roberts. I swear someday these'll stick Bats.

So they didn't have Photoshop or sophisticated software or probably any kind of software illustrating programs in 1972. But they had artists, right? People that could draw and illustrate? And went to art school and all that jazz?

[fimg=333]http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE3M1g4MzM=/z/~iMAAOxyyq5TN3zR/$_57.JPG[/fimg] [fimg=333]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3695/13563329564_0febb723f8.jpg[/fimg]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Art Howe lighting up the Man From Topps' lens on the right.

[fimg=233]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-coJUi4WDS3g/ULQCJoBJtBI/AAAAAAAAjRg/8L4vqYkcL5w/s1600/Art+Howe+(3).jpg[/fimg] [fimg=233]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7202/13572124885_bbc545373d.jpg[/fimg] [fimg=233]http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/09/24/sports/Art-Howe.jpg[/fimg] [fimg=233]http://i17.ebayimg.com/05/i/001/32/90/e854_35.JPG[/fimg]

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Zvon wrote: I knew we saw this guy (cripes this is a long thread to look thru). And I said the same thing, Rader. Ha. Dave Roberts. I swear someday these'll stick Bats. So they didn't have Photoshop or sophisticated software or probably any kind of software illustrating programs in 1972. But they had artists, right? People that could draw and illustrate? And went to art school and all that jazz?

Yep. And then they went and got real jobs.
I kid. I would have loved that job. I suppose Topps had an art department (maybe far fetched for those years, I dunno) and that's the best they could have come up with. True though, quite a few don't look as though a trained hand was involved in any way.

Just how did they do it? Was the artist given a photo and he took a brush right to it? Maybe more similar to cell animation with a clear layer above that is painted on(they certainly had matte processes in movies at this point-something like that?) Did they only allow him one photo to deface, and that's why some real bad ones were accepted? There's a good story here.

Now I'm curious as to which Roberts is the reverse image. I figure not the card. Why does Topps do that? Stupidity?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Zvon wrote: Now I'm curious as to which Roberts is the reverse image. I figure not the card. Why does Topps do that? Stupidity?

[fimg=233]http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE3M1g4MzM=/z/~iMAAOxyyq5TN3zR/$_57.JPG[/fimg] [fimg=233]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3695/13563329564_0febb723f8.jpg[/fimg]

The watermarked Man From Topps Roberts shot is the reversed image -- not the shot on his actual '72 card. You can tell from the way those Padres uniforms button -- buttons on the players' right, buttonholes on their left.

[fimg=333]http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTQ0MFgxMDgw/z/QHsAAOxykmZTNPWQ/$_57.JPG[/fimg]

What you can't tell is whether Roberts' Astro cap was painted directly onto the reversed image or on the regular image.

[Zvon]

Whos this guy?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Zvon wrote: Whos this guy?

I'm stumped.

[Zvon]

Bill Haas, whoever he is. From the New York Sunday News, 4/26/64.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Zvon wrote: Bill Haas, whoever he is. From the New York Sunday News, 4/26/64.

I have that magazine. The Daily News would traditionally run a Mets (and Yankees) Spring Preview/Early Season photo spread in their Sunday News Magazine up until the very early '70's. Those magazines were sometime called "colorotos", which, I think, described the coloring process used back then. I have most of those DN Sunday mags that featured the Mets.

[Edgy MD]

The league felt so bad about how bad the expansion pool was for the Colts and Mets, they arranged a second mini-expansion draft following the 1963 season. Each of the other teams were to put four players into a pool, from which New York and Houston could select up to eight, paying the other team 30,000 a piece.

It was, of course, another disastrous pool of talent, and if served anybody, it served the established teams by offering them a way to get 30,000 for their worst players. The future Astros made only one selection and the Mets two --- starting pitcher Fat Jack Fisher and west coast slugger Haas.

Haas was hampered by the reality of batting outside of the desert and an inability to field. For a team in between Marv Throneberry and Dick Stuart, the latter issue was somehow a concern, so they farmed him out and found out quickly that his numbers in northeastern locations didn't reflect in any way those he put up in the southwest, and he never made the big squad.

I think they really hoped he'd be the steal of the draft.

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: I have that magazine. The Daily News would traditionally run a Mets (and Yankees) Spring Preview/Early Season photo spread in their Sunday News Magazine up until the very early '70's. Those magazines were sometime called "colorotos", which, I think, described the coloring process used back then. I have most of those DN Sunday mags that featured the Mets.

Well get scanning man! These rare Met innerweb images don't scan themselves.
Colorotos. I've never heard of that but it does sound like it would be the name an early color process. Most interesting.

Edgy MD wrote: The league felt so bad about how bad the expansion pool was for the Colts and Mets, they arranged a second mini-expansion draft following the 1963 season. Each of the other teams were to put four players into a pool, from which New York and Houston could select up to eight, paying the other team 30,000. It was, of course, another disastrous pool of talent, and if served anybody, it served the established teams by offering them a way to get 30,000 for their worst players. The future Astros made only one selection and the Mets two --- starting pitcher Fat Jack Fisher and west coast slugger Haas. Haas was hampered by the reality of batting outside of the desert and an inability to field. For a team in between Marv Throneberry and Dick Stuart, the latter issue was somehow a concern, so they farmed him out and found out quickly that his numbers in northeastern locations didn't reflect in any way those he put up in the southwest, and he never made the big squad. I think they really hoped he'd be the steal of the draft.

Amazin' info. thank you Ed.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Astro Day continued here at the "Who Am I?".

[fimg=533:30qsf0kr]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5472/13680352063_172b2beb0c.jpg[/fimg:30qsf0kr]

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

That's Jesus, man.

[batmagadanleadoff]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: That's Jesus, man.

For the quickest correct answer in the history of the "Who Am I?", you win one pair of orange colored starred stirrups, just like the ones worn by The Man From Topps photo subject, Jesus Alou.

[Zvon]

AAAAssssooooose

[Zvon]

Not sure this should go here but:


What's the deal with the sign in the middle? There had to be players standing there, right? Room for 4 easy.
I've always wondered about this. Anyone have a clue?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

I think that's from a revised edition and they cropped and pasted players all over the place. I'll look for the original and scan!

[Zvon]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: I think that's from a revised edition and they cropped and pasted players all over the place. I'll look for the original and scan!

With yearbook team pics I remember them adding players that weren't there in little circular pics.

Players that weren't supposed to be there? I dunno. Usually its currently correct at printing. Strikes me odd that 4 players who didn't end the season on the team would be standing there all together in the middle. That's usually prime real estate for a team pic.

Thanks in advance for any help.

I photoshopped that team pic and put the Shea scoreboard in that spot. Now I'm thinking of putting the missing players back in, if that's the case (it could be one player laying down and held aloft in Cleon, Ed, Stone and Storks arms).

[batmagadanleadoff]

Zvon wrote: metsguyinmichigan wrote: I think that's from a revised edition and they cropped and pasted players all over the place. I'll look for the original and scan! With yearbook team pics I remember them adding players that weren't there in little circular pics. Players that weren't supposed to be there? I dunno. Usually its currently correct at printing. Strikes me odd that 4 players who didn't end the season on the team would be standing there all together in the middle. That's usually prime real estate for a team pic. Thanks in advance for any help. I photoshopped that team pic and put the Shea scoreboard in that spot. Now I'm thinking of putting the missing players back in, if that's the case (it could be one player laying down and held aloft in Cleon, Ed, Stone and Storks arms).

[fimg=866]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nYSKXlm_7Pg/S-MhlQeX0II/AAAAAAAAAIw/XdpV8ron0fU/s1600/73Topps389.jpg[/fimg]

Here's the Mets team pic on the 1973 Topps baseball card. None of the four Mets standing in what you call the prime middle -- Agee, McAndrew, Fregosi or Frisella -- would wind up on the '73 post-season roster.

Of course, that team photo had to have been taken early in the '72 season, a year before the card was available. Is that Jim Beauchamp standing behind Jerry Grote? Because if it is, and he's wearing #5 instead of #24, then that means that Willie Mays is MIA.

[Zvon]

Yea, that's deff Beauchamp.

The guys in the last row after Matlack (going to right).
Dave Marshall, Chuck Taylor, Bill Sudakis and who ?
Harry Parker? Joe Nolan? Tom Cruise?


It's doable but I'm gonna go with the scoreboard.
I wouldn't have minded another team pic with Agee in it but other than that I see no point. Still,
I'm curious as to who was back there.


So, to get back to the original question : McAndrews still there, upper right (whoops, now in it twice),
so Agee, Marshall, Fregosi, and Frisella? Oh wait, Gentry. No, Gentry and Frisella went for Stone and Millan, who are in it.

Yikes. Don't mind me. I'll figure this out.

[Zvon]

So this would be the team pic in the original 73 yearbook? 5 rows high coming out of spring training. Ike Hampton gets Tommies 20! Wha!!?? Shudda retired it.

I kid, but seriously, lets start a movement to get Lagares and Recker to switch numbers.

[Zvon]

Zvon wrote: Still, I'm curious as to who was back there.

Well I'll be damned. They really did do a cut and paste. I figured they just slapped the rectangle sign over whoever was there.


Pics taken same session, maybe seconds apart.

So it's Jerry May, Jim Gosger, Phil Hennigan and Jim Fregosi. And they moved Beauchamp and Hahn to the side. That would have to be literally cut & paste work, right? Hands on, with an exacto knife & allathat? Then taking a photo of the doctored photo?

A trainer and the player behind him on the far right are gone ( clubhouse att. Bill Hampton/ batboy George Palmero). Looks like Foster was pulled for Capra (upper left row). Capra's not in the B&W team pic. That must have required photo surgery.


Pretty amazin. I mean, I know pictures could be manipulated before PC and photo editors. Just never thought they'd do it to a baseball team pic. I recall the photo circles they'd use to add new guys.

Great job too, even with the fact that an orange rectangle team sign looks totally stupid there. I suppose the scoreboard is just as silly. I can't help it. I miss the old scoreboard *sob.

So the guy in uniform next to Jim McAndrew(in the color one) was not a Met player? A camera technician? I remember the Mets were one of the early teams to analyze video tape for training purposes but I don't think that was the guy I recall doing it. Conner? Wth is that guy doing in a uniform? That ain't right.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Zvon wrote: Yea, that's deff Beauchamp. The guys in the last row after Matlack (going to right). Dave Marshall, Chuck Taylor, Bill Sudakis and who ? Harry Parker? Joe Nolan? Tom Cruise?

I got Don Hahn where you say Sudakis.

[fimg=633]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-dK0XvM4F3mQ/U0RX0sSX9FI/AAAAAAAAOcE/3zJ1Y8JoO9o/s863/73MetTEAMpicTEST1.png[/fimg]

Why is Kranepool wearing #29? Did you do that?

[batmagadanleadoff]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Zvon wrote: Yea, that's deff Beauchamp. The guys in the last row after Matlack (going to right). Dave Marshall, Chuck Taylor, Bill Sudakis and who ? Harry Parker? Joe Nolan? Tom Cruise? I got Don Hahn where you say Sudakis.

[fimg=744]https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7319/13838606434_b0621bf591.jpg[/fimg]

I found another version of the team photo used on the Topps '73 team card -- with legend. You were right -- that's Sudakis, not Hahn. Also there's good reason why you couldn't identify the Met to Sudakis's left -- it's the batboy! Also, Boswell and Mays, physically MIA for that actual shoot, are included in circular insets. Don Hahn is both MIA and unaccounted for, even by insert.

[Zvon]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Why is Kranepool wearing #29? Did you do that?

Yes. Both unis above McAndrew and Stone are from the '71 team photo.
I did photoshop the #40 on to Stones, actually just the 0 over Seavers (4)1.


There must be color versions of all these team shots. I'm collecting the ones I find on-line and very few are in color. And most are not such good quality, color or not.

[Edgy MD]

�Qui�n soy yo?

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: �Qui�n soy yo?

That's what Tom Seaver and Johnny Bench's kid would look like.
[fimg=444]http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1106/memorable.sports.kisses/images/seaver-bench.jpg[/fimg]

[Edgy MD]

Nope, he's a real dude, not a double-Y chromosome monster!

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Is that Mac Scarce?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

could it be Jim Dwyer?

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, that's Mac without his mustache and shag.



I guess I don't hide it too well when it's in the photo's URL.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Edgy MD wrote: Yeah, that's Mac without his mustache and shag. I guess I don't hide it too well when it's in the photo's URL.

I didn't see the URL, but I did think it looked like he was in a Phillies uniform. I remember Scarce came from the Phils.