Star Wars, Episode 7 The Force Awakens (2015) [SPOILERS]

[Edgy MD]

metsmarathon wrote: the remnants of a soundly defeated german empire took a mere two decades to rebound into one hell of a formidable military machine following the great war.

They had a state.

Yeah, I'd've liked a little more history. I had a stake in the victory of the the rebel fleet in the original series. I'd've liked to have known how they let the vanquished enemy come on back into being the galaxy's dominant power.

[Vic Sage]

Picking away at the story's logic (or lack thereof) misses the point, i think, insofar as it begs the underlying question: why tell the same story again at all (logical or not)? Many here are fine with the fact that they did so, some of us are not. And that's fine.

What i find unconvincing, however, is the position that "no, they didn't tell the same story, there are just some similarities due to the nature of the universe they're in"... on which i call bullshit. It was just Disney's conservative, market-tested decision making that lead to this missed opportunity. Hopefully, the next 2 films will actually move things forward.

[Guest El Segundo Escupidor]

the first order is on the outskirts of the known galaxy, with access to a vast frontier far distant from the new republic - and all of its attendant resources - and is made up from the most ardent among the empire's survivors. it could've been explained away a bit better. but did we really want them to get into more history lessons, treaty negotiations, and discussions of the intricacies of galactic economics?

Braveheart, Lawrence of Arabia, and Dr Strangelove (to name but a few) contain such elements but nobody complained.

the remnants of a soundly defeated german empire took a mere two decades to rebound into one hell of a formidable military machine following the great war. They had a state. Yeah, I'd've liked a little more history. I had a stake in the victory of the the rebel fleet in the original series. I'd've liked to have known how they let the vanquished enemy come on back into being the galaxy's dominant power.

It's pretty obvious (at least to me) that Abrams thought that all the shit about politics, taxation of trade routes and what not, was the biggest problem with the prequel trilogy and he went out of his way to avoid that sorta stuff in TFA. The truth is cartoonish, unrelatable characters were the biggest problem with the prequel trilogy. Moreover, Abrams doesn't exactly excel in establishing his own lore. In fact, he took a massive dump on the pre-established Star Trek lore because it just happened to get in the way of making a good action flick.

Picking away at the story's logic (or lack thereof) misses the point, i think, insofar as it begs the underlying question: why tell the same story again at all (logical or not)? Many here are fine with the fact that they did so, some of us are not. And that's fine. What i find unconvincing, however, is the position that "no, they didn't tell the same story, there are just some similarities due to the nature of the universe they're in"... on which i call bullshit. It was just Disney's conservative, market-tested decision making that lead to this missed opportunity. Hopefully, the next 2 films will actually move things forward.

The problem you state is intertwined with my point. The entire SW universe was reset to the beginning of Episode IV in order to facilitate Disney's :soft reboot:-- they didn't even try to hide it in some instances -- Han went back to exactly the same person he was at the beginning of ANH because he didn't like the life he had after ROTJ (that we never saw anyway). Like he was precluded from choosing a third completely, independent course or a mixture between the two.

[Edgy MD]

How much of a downer is that? Han, after all the character growth he supposedly went through, is hanging on as a septuagenarian smuggler? And Chewie is happy to be along for the same going-nowhere ride decades in, still looking for that one big score that can really save their necks? Without even their cool ship to brag about.

[Centerfield]

Edgy MD wrote: How much of a downer is that? Han, after all the character growth he supposedly went through, is hanging on as a septuagenarian smuggler? And Chewie is happy to be along for the same going-nowhere ride decades in, still looking for that one big score that can really save their necks? Without even their cool ship to brag about.

Well, when you swear a life-debt and all, sometimes your guy makes bad decisions. I'm sure Chewie made his feelings clear. He did as much when Han initially abandoned the attack on the first Death Star.

I don't think Han went back to being who he was in ANH (answering ESS, not Edgy). He originally smuggled to find fortune. He's now smuggling to escape pain. Like I said before, taking our proud hero who was a general at the end of Episode 6, and bringing him back not as a dignified leader, but as a septuagenarian smuggler was a risk. In my opinion.

But Vic is right. A lot of this comes down to how much you minded them telling the same story again. And yes, it is almost exactly the same story. If you hated it, it brought down the movie a lot. If you didn't mind it, then you could appreciate the other parts which were, in my opinion, done well.

So let's see where they take the story from here. If the main plot of the second movie is repeated attempts to escape the FO with the Falcon's malfunctions being a plot tool, and then capped off by a big reveal of family ties, then I think more will start falling in line with Vic.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

If Rian Johnson--who did some interesting stuff with noir tropes and language in Brick and wrought something thought-provoking and tightly-worked with Looper-- isn't the guy who can take this thing in a smart new direction, I'm not sure who is. (Bowie's kid, maybe?)

BTW, finally took YoungerPooper to see this. Cried quietly for a solid five minutes after Han died, but lived, and loved most everything besides.

[Guest Mets Willets Point]

Edgy MD wrote: How much of a downer is that? Han, after all the character growth he supposedly went through, is hanging on as a septuagenarian smuggler? And Chewie is happy to be along for the same going-nowhere ride decades in, still looking for that one big score that can really save their necks? Without even their cool ship to brag about.

Or he's traveling around the galaxy and smuggling to earn money to fund it (and not paying back loans) and keeping tabs with all sorts of lowlife people who know things, because his best friend has disappeared and he's trying to find him. Seems to me that was what he was trying to do in his very Han Solo-ish way, revealed in a few lines of dialogue.

[metirish]

Skellig Michael looked great , overall I liked the movie , I'm not a Star Wars nut but I def enjoyed the whole thing

[Guest Mets Willets Point]

Watched it with the kids last night. They loved it.

My wife has an interesting theory regarding Rey (and after searching online, a theory others have already proposed) that she was a young Padewan at Luke's Jedi academy who survived the slaughter of the Knights of Ren and was brought to Jakku (possibly by Luke) for her own safety, watched over from afar by Max Von Syndow's character (which explains why he also has the map). The actor who portrayed young Rey in the flashback was 7 which fits with what is already established of the young ages at which Jedi begin training. Rey's memories of her childhood are lost due to the trauma or possibly even "wiped" by Luke using Jedi powers.

I think this theory ties a lot of things together and I like it better than the suggestions that she's is related to an established character, which feel like kind of a cop out.

[Ceetar]

Centerfield wrote: How much of a downer is that? Han, after all the character growth he supposedly went through, is hanging on as a septuagenarian smuggler? And Chewie is happy to be along for the same going-nowhere ride decades in, still looking for that one big score that can really save their necks? Without even their cool ship to brag about. I don't think Han went back to being who he was in ANH (answering ESS, not Edgy). He originally smuggled to find fortune. He's now smuggling to escape pain. Like I said before, taking our proud hero who was a general at the end of Episode 6, and bringing him back not as a dignified leader, but as a septuagenarian smuggler was a risk. In my opinion. So let's see where they take the story from here. If the main plot of the second movie is repeated attempts to escape the FO with the Falcon's malfunctions being a plot tool, and then capped off by a big reveal of family ties, then I think more will start falling in line with Vic.

Centerfield wrote: 3. Daisy Riddle is a star. Tough, vulnerable, funny, compelling. You can't take her eyes off of her whenever she is on the screen. And it's not just because she's easy on the eyes. Even the way she eats her green meal on Jakku is compelling. If you asked me before the movie, who is worthy of taking over the Falcon, I would have said no one. Never. Impossible. But when she did it, it was seamless. When she called that lightsaber, it made you want to stand up and cheer.

I agree with much of this. (Yes yes, it's like 7 months later and I _just_ saw it)

the 'reboot' was kind of a given. They want to make Star Wars eternal, and so they tied into the first movie and want to build from there. Sure, if they'd just called it Star Wars without Leia/Han (and Luke?) we all would've seen it, but by directly tying into our emotional investment in those characters allows them to tie us to the new characters that are going to take the story forward. Rey taking over the Falcon (and Chewie!) was perfect. Like you said, there was no way to do that and they did. Now Chewie and the Falcon can exist in the other movies without feeling like they're just shoving them at us for nostalgia's sake. They're free to evolve.

Han didn't regress, he basically became Obi Wan. Him reverting to smuggling wasn't a reboot, it was him retreating after his son/Protégé turned and his friend fled. (all the Jedi went into hiding)

It's not surprising that there were a lot of similarities and overlaps for a movie in the same universe picking up after 30 years or so. (And how much time has passed in-universe? was that clear?) And yeah, they over did it. Let's make another Death Star, only BIGGER. They did abandon the 'find Luke' plot halfway through, and I could've done with some Luke scenes, some preview of episode 8 about what he's up to. I'd like to see less looking back in episode 8, but they still have a lot of explaining to do on what happened between then and now and what the world is like. There was A Lot of predictability to this movie, I felt like I knew the next lines multiple times, and I'm not even a big Star Wars geek.

And there are going to be a lot of similarities in the next movie too, almost inevitably. I hope they break from the mold, but I'd be surprised if we don't get a Rey training with Luke while the rest of the heroes are threatened by the new enemy of the film. If I had to guess, this ends with them realizing they're needed and Luke and Rey both departing to return to the main story, instead of Yoda trying to persuade Luke to stay and ignore it.