"F the Nationals" � Everybody

[Edgy MD]

At least according to USA Today's Bob Nightengale.

Nightengale: Nationals despised for sitting Strasburg Bob Nightengale, USA TODAY Bob Nightengale: Baseball executives say the Washington Nationals' playoff run is not a feel-good story. GM: 'They don't deserve to win it. Not after what they did' Another GM: 'I hope it takes another 79 years' Win or lose today, the Strasburg talk will never completely go away 11:18AM EST October 11. 2012 - It was painful to watch, almost heartbreaking. The nation's capital has gone 79 years between playoff appearances, but saw the Nationals get humiliated Wednesday in their first-ever home postseason date. It almost makes you feel like sending flowers and sympathy cards. So why are we hearing laughter and celebration all across baseball? The Nationals might have been the most compelling story this summer, but suddenly they've become the most hated team in the game. After being embarrassed 8-0 by the St. Louis Cardinals and falling behind 2-1 in their National League Division Series, there was no compassion or a scintilla of empathy for them. NLDS: Cardinals take 2-1 series lead Instead, we kept hearing the same refrain: They got what they deserve. "If we don't win the World Series, I don't care who does," one general manager told USA TODAY Sports, "as long as it's not those guys. "They don't deserve to win it. Not after what they did." Said a National League GM: "I hope they go down in flames. I hope it takes another 79 years before they get back to the playoffs. That's how strongly I feel about it." The Nationals, baseball executives say, brought this on themselves. They were the defiant ones. They were the ones telling the world they were smarter than everyone else, shutting down ace Stephen Strasburg after 159 1/3 innings, believing they were protecting their prized asset for a lot of playoff games in their future. "We'll be back," Nationals GM Mike Rizzo said after they clinched the National League East title, "and doing this a couple more times." That was the quote heard 'round the baseball world, with general managers and executives making sure everyone saw it. Who do they think they are, the Yankees? Are the Philadelphia Phillies going to defect from the NL East? Are the Atlanta Braves retiring with Chipper Jones? What if the Nationals don't get back during Strasburg's stay in Washington? What if this is their best chance to ever get to the Series? How do you live with that? And how would you like to be Ross Detwiler today? He's the poor soul taking Strasburg's spot in the playoff rotation, which in three games has yielded a 9.00 ERA with 25 baserunners. Now, he's the one responsible for saving the season. Win or lose today, the Strasburg talk will never completely go away. Nationals players, particularly veterans, have grumbled and might sound off more once they depart.

[Frayed Knot]

Wow, that's some pretty strong stuff being tossed by rival GMs ... and I gotta say I'm surprised.

Not that one can't disagree with the decision, but it is one they/Rizzo made at the beginning of the season and stuck to all along. Personally, I kind of admire Rizzo for bearing the heat that way. Maybe the rival GMs think this is all Boras-dictated and hate it for that reason?
And, yeah, the 'we'll be back' statements can be seen as a bit arrogant but everyone on top thinks that way and with the age/control of their roster the Nats have at least as much reason to think that as anyone. Sure nothing's guaranteed, but that doesn't mean you treat each day as if it'll be your last either.

It's an arguable position, I'm just shocked it's receiving the kind of vitriol shown in that piece.

[metirish]

Jeez, the same GM's would be killing them if Strasburg pitched yesterday and blew his arm out....

[Edgy MD]

In fairness, he speaks of a baseball-wide consensus, but he only quotes two dudes. I suppose they see it as a bad precedent in yielding their autonomy to agents.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Exactly. Even if it's not an actual precedence-setter, it emboldens a lot of guys to ask for special client treatment... who REALLY don't need any emboldening to begin with.

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Jeez, the same GM's would be killing them if Strasburg pitched yesterday and blew his arm out....

of course, there would likely be no correlation. That's the main thing.

I don't why rival GMs care though. Isn't this all born from a desire to over-protect high-priced commodities? I'd love to hear (And maybe we will) what Nats players think of it, particularly the ones that might not be there next year.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

I dunno, I watch Rizzo speak for five seconds and I want to take a swing at him. He also had a lot of shit to say about how he his ownself would be making the decisions on Strasburg, not that old scarfaced guy in the dugout.

"There is no magic number," Rizzo said. "It will be the eye test. (Manager) Davey (Johnson) won't decide and ownership won't decide. It will be the general manager, and that's me."

I'm sure that some people who read that might think it's pretty disrespectful of Davey.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Nationals knew (barring a collapse) that they were likely playoff bound for much of the season. I'm surprised that they didn't choose another way to conserve his innings, like maybe pitching him less frequently for a stretch in the middle of the season. Maybe they could have had him pitch three relief innings once per week in August or something and then work him back into starter mode during September.

[Edgy MD]

Davey settles that sort of power struggle mano-a-mano.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Apparently he was the losing mano in this one.

[dinosaur jesus]

If you're looking for reasons to hate the Nats, that one seems like it would be pretty far down the list. I'd start with Bryce Harper and leave it at that.

[Ceetar]

dinosaur jesus wrote: If you're looking for reasons to hate the Nats, that one seems like it would be pretty far down the list. I'd start with Bryce Harper and leave it at that.

I'd start with "play in the NL east"

that's good enough for me. Granted, they're my second favorite NL East team, but I still despise them.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Harper is the face-you-want-to-punch of the franchise.

Violent tendencies today. I should take a nap at lunchtime.

[bmfc1]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: The Nationals knew (barring a collapse) that they were likely playoff bound for much of the season. I'm surprised that they didn't choose another way to conserve his innings, like maybe pitching him less frequently for a stretch in the middle of the season. Maybe they could have had him pitch three relief innings once per week in August or something and then work him back into starter mode during September.

This. After the all-star break, I was surprised that they didn't push his first start until as late as possible to stretch out his starts.

The Nationals have come across as smug and acting smarter than everybody (Rizzo said that we only know "10%" of what he knows about Strasburg). Plus, the other GMs don't like his cozy relationship with Boras-- they hate Boras while Rizzo gets along with him. This doesn't mean they they are wrong or that their critics are wrong. The only thing that's known is that Strasburg was healthy when he was "shut down" and he's not being used in the playoffs while their 5th starter is.

[Vic Sage]

I would have done it differently... keep Strasburg in Florida, working out, staying in shape, throwing easy, from April-May, then have him pitch a few AAA games late May-early June, before bringing him up by early-mid June; if he has a strong 2nd half, maybe he pitches the Nats into the playoffs and beyond, assuming they could hang around for the first few months without him... and ay, that's the trick.

But i don't have a problem, in principle, with a GM deciding to limit the IP of a very young pitcher, a #1 pick coming off Tommy John surgery, as a strategy going into a season, and even if i disagree with the way he did it, i respect his commitment to that strategy. And it is his decision about who is and who isn't on the roster... no one else's. Is it arrogant of him to say so? Maybe, but it's also true.

I'm rooting for the Nats in this situation, just to shut everybody the hell up for a while. Also, they're playing the Cards. What, you want me to root for the Cards???

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: But i don't have a problem, in principle, with a GM deciding to limit the IP of a very young pitcher, a #1 pick coming off Tommy John surgery, as a strategy going into a season, and even if i disagree with the way he did it, i respect his commitment to that strategy. And it is his decision about who is and who isn't on the roster... no one else's. Is it arrogant of him to say so? Maybe, but it's also true.

The main thing here is the goal. For most fans the idea is to win a World Series, and you never know when/if you get a better shot than right now.

But that's not really the front office's goal. They want as many money-drawing Strasburg starts down the line as they can get. They'd rather trade the possibility of winning it all for making the playoffs and losing 4 or 5 times. No matter how little the correlation is from pitching Strasburg more innings this year leading to injury they feel it's in their best interest to get the most out of him over as long a period of time as possible.

[Edgy MD]

That math doesn't add up at all.

If they indeed believe the tradeoff is four or five playoff appearances, then they would be fools not to play it like they did.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: That math doesn't add up at all. If they indeed believe the tradeoff is four or five playoff appearances, then they would be fools not to play it like they did.

it's probably shorter than that. They believe if they push Strasburg this year he might be ineffective next year. They're perfectly happy with 'almost good enough' this year if it comes to that as long as they're at least 'almost good enough' again next year. They're rather make the playoffs and lose both years than win the WS this year and miss next year.

the criticism of course, is that there is a pretty damn good chance that nothing they've done has helped their chances next year but has definitely hurt them this year.

[ashie62]

The fat lady has sung Washington.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

Boy, am I sorry I missed the end of this one. I went to bed assuming the Nats had won and woke up to see this. The highlights cannot do it justice.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Wow, even The Nation, not known for their sports coverage are getting in their digs. They do have point though.

[Guest Swan Swan H]

"Anabolic hubris." Nice.