Marty on 50ths

[G-Fafif]

Noble puts the Mets and Astros into respective 50th anniversary perspective.

Both are neat articles, to say the least. Here's the money passage from the Mets' column:

The Mets are a 50-year-old franchise with roots that seem significantly deeper. Their first game came shortly after Glenn's three orbits and Wilt's 100 points, but their birth seemed to coincide more with Lindbergh's flight and Babe's 60. They have played more games in Queens than the Dodgers played in Ebbets Field or the Giants played in the 46-year incarnation of the fifth Polo Grounds. They were classmates of the Astros, nee Colt .45s, products of the first round of NL expansion. They are markedly more accomplished than the Texas team that will jump to the American League next year with more no-hitters and NL MVP Awards, but more than likely, with merely one pennant and not a single miracle or parade down the Canyon of Heroes.

[ashie62]

NY Mets 1964 Worlds Fair-case closed.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ashie62 wrote: NY Mets 1964 Worlds Fair-case closed.

I have no idea what that means!

[Frayed Knot]

MN: The K Corner -- not to mention its many wonderful derivations -- had its genesis in the upper deck in left field at Shea Stadium when Dwight Gooden was doing for K what Zorro had done for Z.

-- Maybe I'm off here, but I remember the first displays of Ks in Anaheim during Nolan's games there. My first impression of seeing them for Dwight was that it was kind of an imitation. It became ours but I don't think it started that way. Same with the rhythmic clapping at two strikes which I first heard during Guidry's hey-day in the Bronx.


-- And in the chart comparing the two franchises under the Astros article there's this:
Players used Mets = 923
Players used Astros = 762
That's a pretty big disparity, much bigger than I'd have ever thought, and I guess it says something about the different ways of going about things between the two although I'm not sure what.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't know this for sure, but would suspect those personnel numbers would look a lot closer if we compared them, say, 10 or 11 years ago. Starting with the Steve Phillips years the Mets really tore through players at a whole new level than before.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm similarly curious. I wonder what the respective counts were, say, in 1970, 1980, 1990, and 2000. The Mets did accelerate the player count, as Johnny said, some time in the 1990's, but I don't have any idea if the Mets were any different from the other teams. Was there overall change that made most teams start churning through players much more quickly, or is it just a Mets thing?

[Benjamin Grimm]

Mets player counts at the end of "round-numbered" years:

1970: 185
1980: 311
1990: 439
2000: 651
2010: 895

[Benjamin Grimm]

For the Astros (using the data from this page)

1970: 178
1980: 296
1990: 414
2000: 582
2010: 754

Both teams saw an acceleration starting in the 1990's, but the Mets put more pedal to the metal than the Astros did.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I do believe the disabled-list trends league wide spiked around then as well, which would tend to add players (Steroids!!) But still doesn't fully explain the disparity.

[Frayed Knot]

Grimm's stuff looked at another way

NEW players introduced for each team during ...
1960s - Mets = 185; Astros = 178 (when obviously ALL players were new)
1970s - Mets = 126; Astros = 118 (minor differences so far)
1980s - Mets = 128; Astros = 118 (still small but surprisingly consistent)
1990s - Mets = 212; Astros = 168
2000s - Mets = 244; Astros = 172 (holy shit those are huge gaps!)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

We need a third team or league averages for a control group!

[G-Fafif]

And here I thought Drayton McLane resorted to erratic hiring and firing policies.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Pilots/Brewers

1970: 78
1980: 220
1990: 334
2000: 514
2010: 728

[Benjamin Grimm]

Kansas City Royals

1970: 51
1980: 158
1990: 299
2000: 496
2010: 735

[Benjamin Grimm]

Los Angeles California Angels of Anaheim, California

1970: 197
1980: 372
1990: 515
2000: 715
2010: 862

[Benjamin Grimm]

San Diego Padres (first player alphabetically: Shawn Abner!)

1970: 55
1980: 196
1990: 329
2000: 528
2010: 807

[Edgy MD]

We'd do well to measure the decades more evenly:

1962-1971
1972-1981
1982-1991
1992-2001
2002-2011

[Benjamin Grimm]

And... this is the last one I'm gonna do.

Expos/Nationals

1970: 56
1980: 189
1990: 354
2000: 550
2010: 789

[Chad ochoseis]

The Mets and Angels (usually) have more money to spend than most of the other 60s expansion teams and have been more willing to invest in free agents and - possibly - to trade prospects for high priced established major leaguers.

Also - without checking - the Mets have probably contended more frequently than the other teams, meaning they'd be more likely to make trade deadline moves that would add major league level talent to the org.

Just some guesses.