Guys I/we hadn't realized were still jobless for 2012

[Frayed Knot]

Vlad Guerrero is without a contract and is currently working out in the DR for the Indians with hopes of landing some kind of deal.

[metirish]

Surely with these numbers from last season he'd have a job, are salary demands too high I wonder?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/guerrvl01.shtml

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Interesting. Usually when a player is that washed-up the Mets sign him.

[metirish]

Mets � Willets Point wrote: Interesting. Usually when a player is that washed-up the Mets sign him.

remember all the agony when the Mets didn't sign him after the 2003 season?, something about an X-Ray and Fred's wallet.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Here's me and Jim Duquette on Twitter a long time ago:

@Springer66 � Open @Jim_Duquette Jim, how'd you let Vlad get by the Mets in '04? Market was soft, we had a gaping hole in RF... Jim Duquette ? @Jim_Duquette Close @Springer66 - the same doctor that said Kazmir would blow out said Vlad's back wouldn't hold up. 0 for 3. Overlooked VZ injury too. Hide conversation 3:22 PM - 5 Feb 11 via �berSocialOrig � Details

I don't believe that still.

[Edgy MD]

Why would you depend on the same doctor for a conclusive and final opinion regarding an outfielder's back injury, a starting pitcher's elbow ligament, and a pitching prospect's kinesthetic outlook? That guy goes 0-3, and I question the manager who sent him to the plate each time.

[metirish]

Good stuff there JCL

I thought the Mets docs never even viewed Zambrano's x-rays and Peterson was behind the Kazmir thing with his view on bad mechanics?

The Vlad thing IIRC was a smoke screen from the Mets.

[Ceetar]

Kazmir ultimately did blow out, just took longer than was worth worrying about. That's the risk. Maybe Duquette, as more of a sabr guy, fell prey to the "There is no such thing as a pitching prospect" meme.

Back may have been a small concern, but it was probably just something to use as an excuse for .. i dunno, not raising payroll, not signing that long a contract..who knows.

I don't know why you'd ask the same guy. I imagine Peterson was at least one of the guys anti-Kazmir, as pitching mechanics as they pertain to injuries was pretty much what he did. He probably also noted that Zambrano had something fundamentally wrong that when fixed would've hopefully yielded better results, of course it seems like what was wrong was because he was injured.

Remember the days when Mets went whole seasons hiding injuries and we didn't even know it?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think Duke's still treading carefully around the Wilpons here. If he comes out and says "Fred forbid any spending beyond Kablammeron and Matsui -- whom he thought would boost revenue -- because he was reaching deep into his pockets to buy out the rotten Cablevision deal and I didn't have the juice to argue otherwise" he'd risk not getting that plum broadcasting job he's got now.

He's not bad btw, apparently will fill in some on radio broadcasts this year.

[metirish]

Yeah , probably some of that going on alright, can't blame the guy if that's the case, he needs to work. I remember at the time his daughter was very sick with a rare blood condition and Jim stating how grateful he was to the Mets and Wilpon's for their support.

[Ceetar]

as a fill-in guy who knows if Duquette even had any real sway to kill him for. He seems okay on the radio.

Also, credit him (and Omar/Sandy for keeping them) with hiring Ben Baumer and founding the Mets statistical dept.

[Frayed Knot]

I read that Duquette answer as totally sarcastic; a way to shift the blame as it were over to the 'Pons and their baby-sitting 'wise old men' who they hired to watch over their young GM.

As far as we know, there never was a doctor declaring that Kazmir was due for a blow-out, only PC Rick Peterson declaring that he was still a few hundred minor league innings away from being ready (a prediction that proved mostly accurate) which in turn prompted the 'wise old men' to toss long-range thinking out the window and ship Kaz out for more immediate "help" in the form of their unexplained confidence in one Victor Zambrano.

In Vlad they did actually make an offer although it was a qualifying one based on his health which may or may not have been a good idea seeing as how, unlike the Angels, the Mets did not have the DH fallback and there were a number of games over the next few seasons when Vlad would have been unavailable w/o that option.

The larger point being, I don't think either one was solely the result of medical thinking and certainly not that of the same doctor.

[Vic Sage]

yeah, great thinking it was too.
Vlad averaged .320/30hr/100rbi over the next 6 years with the Angels, with only the last season spent as a DH.

[G-Fafif]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Matsui -- whom he thought would boost revenue

I was in the Mets clubhouse store recently, the one on 42nd, and noticed a ceramic Kaz statue, three or so feet high, practically leaning against the front counter. It may have been serving to keep some bats upright.

Springsteen wrote a song about a scene like that.

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: yeah, great thinking it was too. Vlad averaged .320/30hr/100rbi over the next 6 years with the Angels, with only the last season spent as a DH.

And yet these days Alderson is praised for being reluctant to give out contracts like that. "One year too many" type deals. Granted Vlad is better than ..well, he's better than most everyone, but don't we laugh at the Werth and Holliday deals? The Howard extension?

Sometimes it works out though.


also: Roy Oswalt.

[Guest sharpie]

Johnny Damon
Derek Lee
Magglio Ordonez
Miguel Tejada

..also guys who don't have a job who would like one.

[Edgy MD]

JayDee Drew.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Edgy DC wrote: JayDee Drew.

Maybe he can get a job with the Phillies.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Guest

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

yeah, great thinking it was too. Vlad averaged .320/30hr/100rbi over the next 6 years with the Angels, with only the last season spent as a DH. And yet these days Alderson is praised for being reluctant to give out contracts like that. "One year too many" type deals. Granted Vlad is better than ..well, he's better than most everyone, but don't we laugh at the Werth and Holliday deals? The Howard extension? Sometimes it works out though.

Ever know anyone who survived driving drunk? Just because something works out doesn't mean it was a good idea at the time.

Also: Milton Bradley.

Also also: this guy.

if i win lottery hugs for everyone and i will still play for bluejays a's or any mlb team for free money aint going to keep me from playing

[metirish]

Canseco has become such a parody of the parody he was.

[Vic Sage]

that's hilarious. he "fixed the game", huh? you mean, after he helped break it?
and i'm sure that's why he wrote the book... not for notariety or money, but to fix the game. god what an asshole.
everybody is a hero in their own story.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

The Twitter feed is hilarious, until you think about it a little, and realize that there's likely no way this ends well.

[metirish]

His last appearance in MLB was 2001 for Christ's sake , and he was 36 then. Desperate for money I suppose, IIRC he only got something like $25,000 for his book.

[metirish]

avi

[ashie62]

Mark Grudzielanek.

[Frayed Knot]

There comes a time when we get told that we can no longer play the children's game Billy. Some of us get told at eighteen, some at forty, but we all get told.

[Edgy MD]

I didn't get that. I mean, it added a touch of drama and gravity to the story, but as something a scout would say to a top prospect he's trying to sign, it didn't make a lot of sense. That wasn't from the book, was it?

[Frayed Knot]

No, that wasn't from the book.

As for its inclusion in the movie, I guess it was just the scout's way of telling young Billy that one should seize the opportunity while it's available. 'We want you as our centerfielder NOW and therefore you should get started on that NOW cuz who knows if that opportunity is still going to be there when you get out of college'.
And, as we know, following that logic haunted him later on.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I get what it could have meant to young Billy. But it seemed to be designed to deliver more weight to the heartbroken older men the film was seemingly aimed at. If I'm 18, I'm like, whatever, dude.

Oscar-candidate? Yeah, maybe. If they hold a special category for date movies for forty-somethings.

[Edgy MD]

Chris Young rehabbed with Mark Prior and claims that Prior is ready to sign somewhere also.