2011 WS IST - Rangers & Cards

[Frayed Knot]

Well, the morning sports talk shows certainly have their lead story all laid out and served up on a silver platter for them tomorrow.
I'm of course talking about that Terrell Owens held a public workout yesterday (one in which all 32 NFL teams declined to show). That should be good for at least an hour of air time and three to four experts to analyze what it all means.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Frayed Knot wrote: Well, the morning sports talk shows certainly have their lead story all laid out and served up on a silver platter for them tomorrow. I'm of course talking about that Terrell Owens held a public workout yesterday (one in which all 32 NFL teams declined to show). That should be good for at least an hour of air time and three to four experts to analyze what it all means.

Now, now, I have no doubt that Mike and Mike of ESPN radio will have Buster Olney on for a moment or two to ask whether David Freise would be a good fit for the Yankees...

[metirish]

I watched until it was 3-3, went to bed around 9:45, been getting up real early this past month , checked the score around 10:40-ish and it was 7-4 Rangers and still only the 7th inning, what time did it finish?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

round 12:30 I think.

I'm having a hard time accepting that given how sloppy it was in the early inning that this game will go down as an all-time classic but I guess the finish makes up for it. I mean, geez.

[bmfc1]

I didn't see past 4-4. When I went to bed, I was thinking that the level of play was even bad for an exhibition game. I would have loved to have seen the last few innings as they happened.

[Met Hunter]

Am I the only one that saw the omen? Endy Chavez batting in the ninth. My first reaction was uh-oh. Then it dawned on me that maybe Ron Washington had the good sense to put him in for defense for the ninth. When I saw Nelson Cruz and his pathetic attempt to field Freese's line drive, I realized that Washington was more McNamara than McGraw. Just think how sweet it would have been having Endy wrap it up by robbing another St Louis third baseman. I would have cheered. Oliver in the tenth? Geez, the only thing missing would have been a shot of Beltran in the stands.

Tonight's prediction-blowout St Louis ala 85 Royals.

[Ceetar]

Met Hunter wrote: Am I the only one that saw the omen? Endy Chavez batting in the ninth. My first reaction was uh-oh. Then it dawned on me that maybe Ron Washington had the good sense to put him in for defense for the ninth. When I saw Nelson Cruz and his pathetic attempt to field Freese's line drive, I realized that Washington was more McNamara than McGraw. Just think how sweet it would have been having Endy wrap it up by robbing another St Louis third baseman. I would have cheered. Oliver in the tenth? Geez, the only thing missing would have been a shot of Beltran in the stands. Tonight's prediction-blowout St Louis ala 85 Royals.

supposedly Castillo was in teh stands.

yeah, if Endy was in for Cruz it's the offseason. After watching the replay, I think if _I_ was in for Cruz it's the offseason.

[metirish]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: round 12:30 I think. I'm having a hard time accepting that given how sloppy it was in the early inning that this game will go down as an all-time classic but I guess the finish makes up for it. I mean, geez.

a quick recap of how tings unfolded?

Did the Rangers go to the 9th leading, was the closer in?

[Ceetar]

2-run lead going to the bottom of the ninth. closer Felix in. out, double to Pujols, walk to Berkman. Craig strikes out.

Clearly in no-doubles defense, first and second, with Freese up. And Freese hits a deep smash to the wall in RF that Cruz seemed to pull up on early and take a weird route to. Either way, Freese manages a triple against the no-doubles defense and drives in the tying runs before Molina strikes out.

Texas comes right back with an Andrus single and Hamilton home run. (Hamilton went 3/6 to raise his average to .240)

so we'll try that save thing again with a 2-run lead in the 10th.

Darren Oliver comes in, gives up two singles (the second was a lucky blooper that just landed fair)

Kyle Lohse (Possibly today's pitcher, though most people doubt it) bunts. An amazing bunt actually, to the SS, who only throws Lohse out by half a step.

Feldman comes in, gets Theriot(RBI groundout), walks Pujols (winning run), to pitch to Berkman who singles in the tying run.

Craig makes out.


Rangers go 1-hit-2-3.

Freese homers.

[metirish]

Thanks Ceetar.....fucking Freese eh?

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Thanks Ceetar.....fucking Freese eh?

I have to say though, the Cardinals fans had some good signs I saw afterwards "Forecast for Game 6: Deep Freese" etc.

Mike and Mike this morning had the gall to say something along the lines of "Shame it was Freese. If it was Pujols, this game would've been truly epic." Also start rattling off best WS games without mentioning '86. screw 'em.

[metirish]

Screw those two, for me what makes baseball great is that a guy like Freese can be a postseason hero.

[Frayed Knot]

Ceetar wrote: Mike and Mike this morning had the gall to say something along the lines of "Shame it was Freese. If it was Pujols, this game would've been truly epic."

If THAT doesn't illustrate the typical ESPN star-driven mentality absolutely fucking perfectly ...

[Met Hunter]

Ceetar wrote: Met Hunter wrote: Am I the only one that saw the omen? Endy Chavez batting in the ninth. My first reaction was uh-oh. Then it dawned on me that maybe Ron Washington had the good sense to put him in for defense for the ninth. When I saw Nelson Cruz and his pathetic attempt to field Freese's line drive, I realized that Washington was more McNamara than McGraw. Just think how sweet it would have been having Endy wrap it up by robbing another St Louis third baseman. I would have cheered. Oliver in the tenth? Geez, the only thing missing would have been a shot of Beltran in the stands. Tonight's prediction-blowout St Louis ala 85 Royals. supposedly Castillo was in teh stands. yeah, if Endy was in for Cruz it's the offseason. After watching the replay, I think if _I_ was in for Cruz it's the offseason.

Dewey Evans makes that catch.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Mike and Mike this morning had the gall to say something along the lines of "Shame it was Freese. If it was Pujols, this game would've been truly epic." If THAT doesn't illustrate the typical ESPN star-driven mentality absolutely fucking perfectly ...

"If it was Pujols, that would've truly epic. Now Ron Jaworski to discuss the Kansas City chiefs game on Sunday!"

[G-Fafif]

Tough play. Got tougher with every replay. But yeah, donde esta Endy?

This game makes a nice rejoinder for the way the regular season ended, when only the Cardinals among those with everything on the line had an easy night of it. This fits right in with the Rays comeback and the Brave and Red Sox implosions.

Seems so long ago, yet it's only been thirty days.

[HahnSolo]

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Mike and Mike this morning had the gall to say something along the lines of "Shame it was Freese. If it was Pujols, this game would've been truly epic." If THAT doesn't illustrate the typical ESPN star-driven mentality absolutely fucking perfectly ... "If it was Pujols, that would've truly epic. Now Ron Jaworski to discuss the Kansas City chiefs game on Sunday!"

I was listening to Mike and Mike today...I never heard them say anything like "shame it was Freese".

[metirish]

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Mike and Mike this morning had the gall to say something along the lines of "Shame it was Freese. If it was Pujols, this game would've been truly epic." If THAT doesn't illustrate the typical ESPN star-driven mentality absolutely fucking perfectly ... "If it was Pujols, that would've truly epic. Now Ron Jaworski to discuss the Kansas City chiefs game on Sunday!"

Ha!

don't you just love on FiOS there are maybe six different espn channels , was flipping channels last night and I passed on one of the espn ones and there was the host "taking a knee" like they do in football with his co-host jock buddies to send his show I think.

[Frayed Knot]

Met Hunter wrote: Met Hunter wrote: Am I the only one that saw the omen? Endy Chavez batting in the ninth. My first reaction was uh-oh. Then it dawned on me that maybe Ron Washington had the good sense to put him in for defense for the ninth. When I saw Nelson Cruz and his pathetic attempt to field Freese's line drive, I realized that Washington was more McNamara than McGraw. Just think how sweet it would have been having Endy wrap it up by robbing another St Louis third baseman. I would have cheered. Oliver in the tenth? Geez, the only thing missing would have been a shot of Beltran in the stands. Tonight's prediction-blowout St Louis ala 85 Royals. supposedly Castillo was in teh stands. yeah, if Endy was in for Cruz it's the offseason. After watching the replay, I think if _I_ was in for Cruz it's the offseason. Dewey Evans makes that catch.

And the thing is, Cruz later on did get replaced in a double-switch during the final pitching change. He apparently tweaked a groin (his own hopefully) and will be, at best, a bit compromised for tonight's game.
Napoli's condition has to be questioned as well.
And throw in Holliday on the other side while we're at it as TLR even mentioned the possibility of replacing him on the roster ... I keep forgetting that they changed the rules to allow teams to do this at such a late date although there must be SOME restriction or else clubs would just wholesale replace worn out pitchers.

[Edgy MD]

Will Washington get the same criticism LaRussa had been getting? Will he get the same criticism MacNamara got?

Because Cruz doesn't really represent a perfect analog for Buckner --- old, white, broken down, chronically injured --- and failing to get to a hard-hit ball ain't the same as letting a bouncer go through your legs.

He took a crap route (though I don't recall McCarver and Buck underscoring this point). Yeah, I guess Endy should've been in, but do we have a good idea what the state of his legs are?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Couple of other small big moments there.

* On the Lohse bunt, had Beltre not been so aggressive charging, he catches it on the fly and has an easy DP.

* Rangers unlucky that Lewis came to bat twice in key spots, obviously the bunt DP in the 2nd was a killer, had he only managed to whiff Rangers on their way to a blowout. Letting him hit in the 5th was a hard choice but with 2 out and him pitching well, I guess you have to take chances. As it turned out he'd have gotten to the 7th were it not for the Young error.

* Quick innings are often a huge hidden advantage for a team needing a comeback. No way to say it mattered for sure, but Rzepczyski retiring TX on 8 pitches in the 8th threw Holland back on the mound in a hurry, where he gave up the HR to Craig.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Will Washington get the same criticism LaRussa had been getting? Will he get the same criticism MacNamara got? Because Cruz doesn't really represent a perfect analog for Buckner --- old, white, broken down, chronically injured --- and failing to get to a hard-hit ball ain't the same as letting a bouncer go through your legs. He took a crap route (though I don't recall McCarver and Buck underscoring this point). Yeah, I guess Endy should've been in, but do we have a good idea what the state of his legs are?

Endy's not exactly a spring chicken, and he's had injuries, and most of us are probably thinking of him as '06 Endy, which was 5 years ago.

I didn't even realize Cruz was replaced in the 11th (one batter, big deal). May have been a nod to the possibility of a longer game and wanting to double switch as much as that he was hurting.

I believe the words mike and mike used were "No offense to Freese, but.." and then basically said it should've been Pujols, he's no Fisk or Puckett, etc.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy DC wrote: Because Cruz doesn't really represent a perfect analog for Buckner --- old, white, broken down, chronically injured --- and failing to get to a hard-hit ball ain't the same as letting a bouncer go through your legs.

White, Gracie?

[MFS62]

Not one of the ESPN "baseball experts" has compared this game to game 7 of the 1960 World Series. One of the most famous games in World Series history.
The scores were similar, games were full of twists and turns, and were ended by a late inning homer by an "unlikely" hitter.


Later

[Ceetar]

MFS62 wrote: Not one of the ESPN "baseball experts" has compared this game to game 7 of the 1960 World Series. One of the most famous games in World Series history. The scores were similar, games were full of twists and turns, and were ended by a late inning homer by an "unlikely" hitter. Later

There are no good highlights of that game obviously.

[Frayed Knot]

Edgy DC wrote: Will Washington get the same criticism LaRussa had been getting? Will he get the same criticism MacNamara got? Because Cruz doesn't really represent a perfect analog for Buckner --- old, white, broken down, chronically injured --- and failing to get to a hard-hit ball ain't the same as letting a bouncer go through your legs. He took a crap route (though I don't recall McCarver and Buck underscoring this point). Yeah, I guess Endy should've been in, but do we have a good idea what the state of his legs are?

Not only is Cruz not hobbled but maybe their best OF out there and def their best arm.

On the triple it wasn't so much a bad route as it was him drifting toward a ball that was hit harder/deeper than he thought.
Buckarver didn't question the route though did comment prior to the hits on how deep the OF was - no doubles so to speak - despite the fact that a single ties the game. Playing more not to lose than in effect than trying to win.
It was as if Cruz thought he was already so deep that he didn't have to go back very hard because he was already close to the track and wall.

Murphy had been the last out prior to Endy, maybe that's the switch you want to make. No way of knowing, of course, that a RF hit will be the critical play later on.

[Edgy MD]

G-Fafif wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Because Cruz doesn't really represent a perfect analog for Buckner --- old, white, broken down, chronically injured --- and failing to get to a hard-hit ball ain't the same as letting a bouncer go through your legs. White, Gracie?

White, the general race category for Bill Buckner.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy DC wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Because Cruz doesn't really represent a perfect analog for Buckner --- old, white, broken down, chronically injured --- and failing to get to a hard-hit ball ain't the same as letting a bouncer go through your legs. White, Gracie? White, the general race category for Bill Buckner.

Yeah, but so? I assume that was included for irony or something. Just kind of jumped out at me as irrelevant in the context of old, broken down and chronically injured.

[Guest attgig]

bottom of the 9th, 2 run lead. you put your best defenders in there, no question. The way Cruz was running to the ball, he did not seem like he was their best defender... I know Endy's no spring chicken, but he's got to be better than THAT.

[Edgy MD]

G-Fafif wrote: G-Fafif wrote: Because Cruz doesn't really represent a perfect analog for Buckner --- old, white, broken down, chronically injured --- and failing to get to a hard-hit ball ain't the same as letting a bouncer go through your legs. White, Gracie? White, the general race category for Bill Buckner. Yeah, but so? I assume that was included for irony or something. Just kind of jumped out at me as irrelevant in the context of old, broken down and chronically injured.

It's a community history thing, going back to the MOFo where a character named METSSC would openly lament the presence of too many Mets players who were "old, white, and slow." It's since become an article of faith to make a point of unnecessarily dragging race into it when referring to a creaky old guy.

As if Moises Alou being old, slow, and broken down was offset in part by him not being white.