Moneyball (2011)

[Guest sharpie]

Also, Beane has a phone confab with Steve Phillips.

I liked it. The scout he fired reminded me of John Boehner.

[Edgy MD]

Art Howe, whatever his flaws and virtues, is (and was) at least an athletic man.

Jeremy Giambi was also played by a guy who was about 5'9". And the David Justice actor, while he had a well-cut torso, had skinny little legs. Nice swing, though.

I was disappointed to find out the 2002 Visalia Oaks didn't actually have a profoundly obese catcher.

[Frayed Knot]

I read a story about the Justice actor being a star in HS who went on to play some minor league ball* - although I don't find any record of it in BB-Ref, at least not under his acting name of Steven Bishop. Funny also how much different he looked than he did while singing at the frat party in 'Animal House'.

The story of the blimpy catcher who didn't realize he hit the HR was from the book and it's the somewhat famous case of Jeremy Brown, the 2001 draft pick none of the scouts wanted -- 'he wears a big pair of underwear' -- but Beane made the 35th overall pick and thus the symbol of the 'Moneyball Draft'. He's listed in BB-Ref at 5' 10" - 226 (I think the movie bumped that up to 250) and was in Visalia for most of that season. He wound up getting 3 ABs in the majors before retiring at the end of the 2007 year.

That was one of those points in the flick where I was wondering if the scene was shot of the movie or was actual baseball footage because I was watching that saying; 'I didn't think Jeremy Brown was THAT big'.




* oe: now that I think about it, it may have been college ball and not pro ball that he played. It would also explain the absence in BB-Ref

[Edgy MD]

Oh, I didn't connect that guy with Jeremy Brown. I should have, but that guy seemed at least three bills.

[Frayed Knot]

The might not have said Jeremy Brown in the movie, but they did say 'our 250 lb catcher who no one else wanted' (or words to that effect) and the story about the unseen HR was Brown.
And, yeah, they definitely over-did the size thing for dramatic effect. He was big, but he wasn't that big.

[Edgy MD]

Two forumites gave it a 10? Really? I mean, Citizen Kane, The Battleship Potemkin, Ran, and Moneyball?

I liked it plenty, but I'm not about to go knocking on my neighbor's doors to tell them they've got to go see it.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Edgy DC wrote: Art Howe, whatever his flaws and virtues, is (and was) at least an athletic man. Jeremy Giambi was also played by a guy who was about 5'9". And the David Justice actor, while he had a well-cut torso, had skinny little legs. Nice swing, though.

These little bits aside... didn't the Giambi guy conjure up Giambi for you? And Bradford, too? And, for all his doughiness and obstinacy, Movie Art Howe has about 300% of the balls that I picture Real Art Howe having.

A more grizzled-looking, tobaccy-loving, itinerant version of me might say that virtually all of the baseball actors in this movie had "the face." And the Hatteberg guy-- he's also fun on "Parks and Recreation," whenever I get around to seeing it-- is plus-plus with the comic timing, with a sneaky-good, potential-plus change-up-role-for-a-supporting-actor-Oscar-someday in the repertoire.

[Edgy MD]

The Hatteburg guy had my favorite scene --- the 10 bitter soul-searing seconds of silence of him sitting around the house at Christmastime waiting for the phone to ring and tell him his life isn't over. You got the idea he had been sitting in that same place since October 1, watching his model family coming and going in his model home, wondering if he was worthy of any of it, and if it's all going to disappear on him at any moment... if that fucking phone doesn't ring. I imagined the same fear and ice in dozens or hundreds of ballplayer homes every Christmas.

Ron Washington had the best line in the movie. Ron Washington!

[Vic Sage]

Edgy DC wrote: Two forumites gave it a 10? Really? I mean, Citizen Kane, The Battleship Potemkin, Ran, and Moneyball? I liked it plenty, but I'm not about to go knocking on my neighbor's doors to tell them they've got to go see it.

this.

i remember a typically vitriolic exchange with willets about grading movies, especially recent movies, with such unequivocally high ratings.
Ah, WP. a nemesis to remember.

[TransMonk]

Vic Sage wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Two forumites gave it a 10? Really? I mean, Citizen Kane, The Battleship Potemkin, Ran, and Moneyball? I liked it plenty, but I'm not about to go knocking on my neighbor's doors to tell them they've got to go see it. this. i remember a typically vitriolic exchange with willets about grading movies, especially recent movies, with such unequivocally high ratings. Ah, WP. a nemesis to remember.

Yeah! I'm not sure why the author of this poll even included it as an option when it is so unequivocally wrong.

I still haven't seen it. It will come to cable in about six months...just in time for baseball season, prolly.

[Vic Sage]

Yeah! I'm not sure why the author of this poll even included it as an option when it is so unequivocally wrong

sorry Monk, but you just don't have WP's panache.

[Edgy MD]

Takin' Yogi to Moneyball.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Finally saw this (and after this message I get to read the thread, which I'd also avoided doing till now).

Good. More satisfied at the ending than at the beginning, as a baseball fan I was hoping the case they made for Moneyball would be more thoroughly explained but realize the casual moviegoer doesn't want 'inside baseball.' I also wanted to geek at the treatment of the Giambi-Mabry trade, the seamheads back then unanimously panned that deal which was not at all consistent with the philosophies driving the Pena trade, for instance but presaged that big streak they had that year.

I liked the overarching themes of Beane's struggle against his own destiny though, that made it for me. Thought Howe was too chubby but he was believeable. I know he irl was upset that he felt they made him a villain. Liked all the Scott Hattieberg scenes. I'll give it 3.5 or 4 baseballs.

The John Henry scene where he discusses the fate of teams that fail to embrace the changing ideas hurt a lot considering that was the very same moment we were ditching Valentine for Howe, and still three years from the start of the Omar Era. Discouraging that it took nearly a decade from that moment to begin to look forward, and that was only because their lenders forced them to. One of my worries about the Mets finding financial footing again is that they'll waste no time ousting Alderson afterward, and probably make John Franco the new GM.

[metirish]

Finally had time to myself to watch this tonight, pretty much agree with Vic,Seo and Bucket. I really liked the start with the scouts , the old guy with the hearing aid really set it up for me.All of those guys were great , "ugly girlfriend " was classic, these guys believe in that stuff and it was a great setup for the "moneyball" thinking. The scene when the head scout Grady quit or was fired was brilliant .It might have seemed a bit slow but i liked that it was deliberate in its pacing.

I liked all the stuff with his daughter and the fact that as much as he wanted to win he wanted to win in Oakland , not move from her, it seemed real.

Regarding Jeremy Brown Peter Brant did say his name when he brought Beane down to the video room , I loved that scene , thought the performances of Pitt and Hill were excellent , Pitt especially with his facial expressions and such really portrayed the agony Beane seems to carry,

Overall an excellent movie.

[Edgy MD]

One thing is that a lot of those comments came in the book from the draft discussions --- one of the best parts of the book really. And while they ring true because of the characters they put on the screen saying them, they make less sense coming from a group of scouts discussing professional players --- presumably the semi-veteran players they were tossing around the table as possible replacements for Damon, Giambi, and Isringhausen.

[Ceetar]

The John Henry scene where he discusses the fate of teams that fail to embrace the changing ideas hurt a lot considering that was the very same moment we were ditching Valentine for Howe, and still three years from the start of the Omar Era. Discouraging that it took nearly a decade from that moment to begin to look forward, and that was only because their lenders forced them to. One of my worries about the Mets finding financial footing again is that they'll waste no time ousting Alderson afterward, and probably make John Franco the new GM.

Well, as we learned Saturday, they did start looking forward with the hiring of Baumer.

I loved the movie. Spoiler here, but the only bit I wasn't into was all the attention paid to the 20-game win streak. Plus you did have the the "Last Second Victory Against Improbable Odds" when Hatteburg smacks the dramatic homer in the 20th game. It felt kinda like movie pandering to the lowest common denominator baseball fan and it didn't seem all that relevant to the point of the story. But then the next scene is Pitt saying it doesn't mean shit if you don't win the last game of the series, and it only serves to sell some tickets and hot dogs in the meantime, and he really could've been talking about the team or the movie at that point and I loved it. It was like they put that scene in the movie to try and let you think it was important and then took it back and said, 'No it's not. At all.'

This was a big part in the book too. And I think it's also a part many "stat-heads" miss sometimes when they trumpet Moneyball as this transcendent moment in baseball. How invested Beane is emotionally, which was the reason he failed as a player. They talk about it near the end when he's talking about romanticizing baseball.

I enjoyed the movie, but I guess slightly disappointed probably from the "Never as good as the book" standpoint. I didn't really like the ending. It made it seem like Beane made the wrong choice. The last two little epilogue points: "The Red Sox won the World Series two years later using Beane's philosophy" and then "Beane is still in Oakland trying to win the last game of the series". Hardly true. Even just the offer to Beane is an example of the difference. money. Just look at Damon, who was used as an example of a player not worth what he was being paid. ''

On the other hand it's now 2012 and the A's absolutely suck, traded away roughly everyone and haven't been good since they lost their last 'big three' pitcher. They're headed for a 4th place finish and only because the Astros don't show up until next year. I couldn't watch the movie and not wonder how Beane is handling it these days.

[TransMonk]

I finally saw this and was pleasantly surprised. Not a great movie, but a very good movie...much better than I thought it would be.

[Vic Sage]

i think it suffered from a lack of unicorns.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

We watched this again last night and it was better than I remembered.

The Scott Hatteberg at home scene is really outstanding. The scene that follows he arrives at a huge house I thought it was going to be Dave Justice's place; instead it's his hot ex-wife and the wealthy geek she's now with who can't pronounce "Giambi."

That's money right there!

[Edgy MD]

I agree that his ex-wife's home and Hattie's home are the best scene's in the movie. Absolutely drunk with subtext.