Waive Bay

[bmfc1]

Says this column:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6968872/new-york-mets-release-jason-bay

I didn't know this:

... former Mets GM Omar Minaya gave him a $17 million option for 2014 that vests if he reaches 600 plate appearances in 2013, or 500 PAs in both 2012 and 2013. New GM Sandy Alderson has done a nice job of clearing some salary this season, and it would be a disaster for New York if that option vests.

And there's more on the Mets:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6967863/the-new-york-mets-2011-fate-2012-prospects

I don't usually care what Jim Bowden says, but this part was interesting:

...the bold move they should make this winter besides re-signing Reyes is to try to dangle minor league infielder Wilmer Flores as the centerpiece in a trade for Reds catcher Yasmani Grandal. The Reds already have another promising young catcher in Devin Mesoraco, and Grandal, their 2010 first-round pick, doesn't really have a future in Cincy. Flores is a promising 19-year-old who held his own this year in the Class A Florida State league while being young for the level. Grandal, 22, hit .305/.401/.510 with 31 doubles, 14 home runs while moving quickly from Class A to Triple-A this year. The Mets have had a revolving door behind the plate ever since Paul Lo Duca left, and although Josh Thole is a nice player, he's not a future All-Star like Grandal. Sandy Alderson, the team's vice president and general manager, did a tremendous job in dealing Carlos Beltran at the trade deadline to San Francisco in exchange for the Giants' top pitching prospect, Zack Wheeler. It is this type of trade, as well as perhaps acquiring Grandal, that would make a successful offseason for the Mets and vault them back into contention rather than spending lavishly on free agents as they've done in the recent past. -- Jim Bowden

[metirish]

Release him and just eat the remaining salary?, even if the organization was flush with money I don't see them doing it, easy to say waive him.

Mesoraco must be real good if Bowden is willing to trade away Grandal.

[Benjamin Grimm]

The vesting of Bay's option can be easily avoided. They'll release him at some point in 2013 before the 2014 option gets a chance to kick in. It's not something to worry about.

Upgrading at catcher is certainly something the Mets should consider. I wouldn't be upset at the thought of trading a 19-year-old with no clear position for a 22-year-old catcher who appears to be very close to being ready for the big leagues, especially if he's considered a future All-Star.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Can't see us parting with Bay unless/until we get another legit RH hitter from somewhere, but then sure, I'm all for it (trade preferably)

I'm against linking to ESPN Insider articles.

[Ceetar]

that's bold? but 'centerpiece'? for a prospect? I'm not sure I'd give a package of prospects for one prospect, even a catching one.

Granted, he had an awesome year this year in the minors. But he's only had one year in the minors with 49 games above A. Is that other catcher so awesome that they're so sure that this Grandal guy is extraneous?

It's not a horrible idea, of course, Bowden throwing out a random trade scenario doesn't make him any different than the average WFAN caller, even if it makes more sense than most.

on Bay, yeah. The option isn't really a big deal. It's easily workable. One DL stint basically puts it to rest, and if he's still sucking, he'll get days off frequently against righties. Plus, no one has any idea what the situation with the team will be in 2014. the 17 million for a slugging RFer (if he sucks, he has 0 shot of getting those PA) might not handicap them at all.

[bmfc1]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I'm against linking to ESPN Insider articles.

I know but I thought that it was worth discussing so I included some of the passages.

[Guest Edgy DC]

We all (save ceetar) twisted our hands for the better part of a year over the potential vesting of Rodriguez's option, but Alderson dodged it. I'll trust him with this one.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Speaking of:

Brewers' K-Rod unhappy he's not in closer's mix MILWAUKEE -- He's done his job. He's been a good soldier. But if you think Francisco "K-Rod" Rodriguez is fine with pitching exclusively as a set-up man for first-place Milwaukee, you'd be wrong. "I'm not fine," Rodriguez said Tuesday. "They told me I'd have the opportunity to close some games, and we've had 20-some save opportunities since then and I haven't even had one." John Axford has earned 19 of his 42 saves since K-Rod's arrival. In 24 appearances, Rodriguez has worked only one ninth inning, in what was a 5-1 cruise over St. Louis on Aug. 10. "I'm a little disappointed in that," said Rodriguez, who is 3-0 with a 2.31 ERA for the Brewers. "But that's something that's out of my hands." Rodriguez will be a free agent this winter and figures he will return to closing in 2012. Until then? "Suck it up, pretty much," he said. He apparently has not expressed these feelings of betrayal much to his teammates. No wonder, either, with Axford having converted a club-record 39 consecutive saves. "He's been great," Axford says. "Coming to a new team, it takes a couple of days to adjust, but he jumped in pretty quickly. "He's similar in attitude to the rest of us in the pen. It's a goofy group. Guys like to have fun. But we get serious at game time. That's the way he is, too. By the sixth or seventh inning, he's all business." Initially, when the Brewers acquired Rodriguez, even Axford wasn't sure of what the roles would be -- his own, or K-Rod's. "The biggest thing was, when I found out, I felt I did everything I could to that point to be the closer," Axford said. "But I wasn't going to argue if my role changed. "We got Francisco to help the team. The important part wasn't was I going to close or was he?" For his part, though he's unhappy he's not getting any save opportunities, Rodriguez has enjoyed his teammates and is looking forward to October. "We've still got a couple of series to win to wrap up the division," he says. Ironically, K-Rod could be in line for his first save opportunity Wednesday against Colorado. Brewers manager Ron Roenicke told reporters after Tuesday's 2-1, 11-inning win over the Rockies that, because he used Axford for two innings on Tuesday, Rodriguez will be his closer on Wednesday if a save situation arises.

[Ceetar]

I'm not looking to defend Bay, because he's been horrible except for some very small samples, but I do think there are signs that he could have an okay year next year too.

The ribcage injury early on is one of those things that some guys cite as something that continues to create some hesitency in your swing after you're back.

He's been bothered by this sore shoulder a couple of times this season. He sat out yesterday and if I recall, he mentioned it a couple of times this season and at least once was near the end of another one of his hot streaks.

It's entirely possible that he's having lingering effects of the concussion last year that he's not aware of. (of course, none of this excuses how bad he was last year)


This might be more apporpriate for a Trust in Twelve thread in February.

Edgy DC wrote: We all (save ceetar) twisted our hands for the better part of a year over the potential vesting of Rodriguez's option, but Alderson dodged it. I'll trust him with this one.

And this one seems even easier to avoid. He'd need to play like 150 games in 2013 and the more he sucks, the more he'll get pinch hit for, the further down in the lineup he'll bat, etc.

[Vic Sage]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Can't see us parting with Bay unless/until we get another legit RH hitter from somewhere, but then sure, I'm all for it (trade preferably).

Why should we wait until we get "another" legit RH hitter? Bay's presence in (or absence from) our lineup has absolutely nothing to do with filling that need.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Well, OK, "a" legit RH hitter. The point was, I don't think they'll overthrow Bay if what they have to replace him is Scott Hairston.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ceetar wrote: And this one seems even easier to avoid. He'd need to play like 150 games in 2013 and the more he sucks, the more he'll get pinch hit for, the further down in the lineup he'll bat, etc.

It's even simpler than that. They can (and likely will) just release him.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Ceetar wrote: And this one seems even easier to avoid. He'd need to play like 150 games in 2013 and the more he sucks, the more he'll get pinch hit for, the further down in the lineup he'll bat, etc. It's even simpler than that. They can (and likely will) just release him.

well, yeah, if he sucks. Could've just released K-Rod too. On the same token, if he's got any value, it'd probably be at least as a lefty masher off the bench, which is something playoff contending teams could usually use. (Whether that's the Mets because a prospect has pushed him out of a starting job, or a trade)

[Guest Edgy DC]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Well, OK, "a" legit RH hitter. The point was, I don't think they'll overthrow Bay if what they have to replace him is Scott Hairston.

Evans is there too.

Evans and Duda in the corners might be an adventure, even with Willie Mays in between 'em. They'd certainly better hit. And hit and hit and hit.

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Well, OK, "a" legit RH hitter. The point was, I don't think they'll overthrow Bay if what they have to replace him is Scott Hairston. Evans is there too. Evans and Duda in the corners might be an adventure, even with Willie Mays in between 'em. They'd certainly better hit. And hit and hit and hit.

The A's pulled Corner Josh Willingham off the heap and have gotten 24 HR 90 RBI so far. Bay can be replaced without spending big..

That Flores thing sounds wacky.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

This is 2014, mind you; let's put it this way-- if 3 of Wheeler/Harvey/Mejia/Familia haven't been up and in the majors for a year by then, something will have gone terribly, terribly wrong.

There's miles to go before this is an issue, and plenty of time for Bay to build SOME sort of trade value-- or prove himself completely and finally waiveable before then.

As for Flores-for-Grandal? I'd do that in a heartbeat. I'm pretty certain the Reds wouldn't-- he's a catcher with a better bat than Flores (who'll be pushed to a corner IF/OF spot before long), who's closer to the majors.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Funny this becomes an issue when he's in the midst of perhaps his best month as a Met.

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: Funny this becomes an issue when he's in the midst of perhaps his best month as a Met.

Its the Amazin Amazin Amazin Mets!

[MFS62]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Ceetar wrote: And this one seems even easier to avoid. He'd need to play like 150 games in 2013 and the more he sucks, the more he'll get pinch hit for, the further down in the lineup he'll bat, etc. It's even simpler than that. They can (and likely will) just release him.

If they do and another team signs him, they only have to pay him the major league minumum, with the Mets picking up the balance of his contract.
What happens if he reaches the milestone in that other uniform? Are the Mets stuck with the extra year? Or the team that allowed him to reach the milestone?

Later

[Benjamin Grimm]

The new team would be responsible.

That's why the Brewers renegotiated with Frankie Rodriguez. Once they acquired him, the $17.5 million for 2012 became their problem, not the Mets'.

[metirish]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: This is 2014, mind you; let's put it this way-- if 3 of Wheeler/Harvey/Mejia/Familia haven't been up and in the majors for a year by then, something will have gone terribly, terribly wrong.

I want to hold you on this , well, not you per se but curious to see where these guys will be in 2013/14, of course in the majors doesn't have to mean in the majors with the Mets.

[Benjamin Grimm]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: This is 2014, mind you; let's put it this way-- if 3 of Wheeler/Harvey/Mejia/Familia haven't been up and in the majors for a year by then, something will have gone terribly, terribly wrong.

I'll be quite happy if we're getting quality from two of the four.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

It would be a much less expensive to bring in the wall in left, as they are talking about, than to release Bay. And bringing in the wall might help him tremendously, no?

[Frayed Knot]

Can we please stop talking about bringing in walls as if:
a) that's Jason Bay's problem
that it would somehow only benefit our team

[Guest Edgy DC]

Agreed with FK above.

Regarding, as an aside, moving the wall, in Rubin's chat, he described the Mets plan beiing to get rid of the notch in right, and to paint one of those noxious lines eight feet up on the wall in left, "because the wall is structural, and can't be moved."

To which anybody who gives it seven seconds of thought would reply, "So, build a second wall two and a half feet in front of that. My uncle Kenny pours concrete and can give them a nice deal."

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Agreed with FK above. Regarding, as an aside, moving the wall, in Rubin's chat, he described the Mets plan beiing to get rid of the notch in right, and to paint one of those noxious lines eight feet up on the wall in left, "because the wall is structural, and can't be moved." To which anybody who gives it seven seconds of thought would reply, "So, build a second wall two and a half feet in front of that. My uncle Kenny pours concrete and can give them a nice deal."

The original designs of Citi Field supposedly said the walls could be moved 8 feet. maybe that was scrapped. Randy of the Apple did some photoshopping and came up with very cool ideas for alterations if the case came to be. Obviously, the second smaller wall in front with seats on top in left makes a ton of space, creates more (high priced and in demand) seating, and fixes the 'wall problem'.

But it's not like Bay's been flying out to deep left, or hitting it off the wall. He went like two months without a double.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Edgy DC wrote: To which anybody who gives it seven seconds of thought would reply, "So, build a second wall two and a half feet in front of that. My uncle Kenny pours concrete and can give them a nice deal."

Exactly. It can be a cheap padded free-standing wall like the one they had at Shea. I bet they can get it installed for just a couple of thousand bucks.

[metirish]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Edgy DC wrote: To which anybody who gives it seven seconds of thought would reply, "So, build a second wall two and a half feet in front of that. My uncle Kenny pours concrete and can give them a nice deal." Exactly. It can be a cheap padded free-standing wall like the one they had at Shea. I bet they can get it installed for just a couple of thousand bucks.

cash money baby, Jeff wastes more on awful haircuts.

[smg58]

1. The walls are fine. The Mets' problem is that they can't hit home runs anywhere.

2. In an ideal world, Bay's recent uptick will enable the Mets to get something more than nothing for him. If somebody else sees him as more than a bench player, we should give them a call. Otherwise, since he doesn't deserve the ABs it will take for his option to vest, it should be easy to make sure he doesn't get those ABs.

3. I see Thole as a backup catcher on a good team, and I agree that a good young catcher would be a nice pickup. I'd expect that the Reds would want major-league help, though.

[ashie62]

smg58 wrote: 1. The walls are fine. The Mets' problem is that they can't hit home runs anywhere. 2. In an ideal world, Bay's recent uptick will enable the Mets to get something more than nothing for him. If somebody else sees him as more than a bench player, we should give them a call. Otherwise, since he doesn't deserve the ABs it will take for his option to vest, it should be easy to make sure he doesn't get those ABs. 3. I see Thole as a backup catcher on a good team, and I agree that a good young catcher would be a nice pickup. I'd expect that the Reds would want major-league help, though.

I would tend to agree with all three although I would like the Citi dimensions tweaked.. It will take alot more than Wilmer Flores to get that Reds prospect catcher Bowden was taking about..

"Hello, the Mets? You want who? You know he is a catcher with a very very high ceiling, but we might like Matt Harvey."

Click.