Possible 2012 Outfield

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: No, I want Jos� Reyes for the rest of his career. Else, yeah, absolutely, keep it in the family and (somehow) get healthy.

That would be a nice Christmas present.

[Frayed Knot]

Loewen was signed to a minor league contract* with no guarantees of even making the club. And the piece on Mets.com suggests that, if things work out, he'd likely be slotted to fill the role manned by Willie Harris this past year.

IOW, we're really making too much of this here ... especially this early.




* and even that's just "according to sources"; the team has yet to announce this signing officially

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

He's an actual, honest-to-goodness Met signing with a shot to contribute at the margins, majors-wise. I'm pretty certain that's the spirit in which most-- if not all-- of us were discussing him here.

Also, he looks like he could be a candidate to fill the Henry Blanco Memorial "Where'd You Do Your Time?" slot on the roster, aesthetically speaking.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Did anyone watch Mets Hot Stove yesterday?

Kevin was interviewing Terry Collins, and they were talking about Ruben Tejada. Terry was saying that if Tejada ends up replacing Reyes as the shortstop, he'll have to learn to stay within himself, not try to be Jose Reyes, but to be Ruben Tejada (blah blah blah). Terry said he'll have to continually reinforce the message, and he expects to get help from veteran players who can mentor Tejada, like Angel Pagan or "Carlos Beltran if he's here."

Huh?

I have to wonder, was Terry having a senior moment? Or did he let something slip? I remember when the Mets traded Beltran, they had asked him if a trade would preclude them from resigning Carlos as a free agent over the winter. But in the two months after the trade, Lucas Duda emerged (to a degree, anyway) and I assumed that the Mets would pencil in right field as a position that's set with a low-cost player. And they wouldn't bring back Beltran to play center, would they?

I doubt that we'll see Beltran return in 2012, but Terry did say what he said, and I am curious about what's behind it.

[metirish]

Interesting , at the least Beltran could expect two years $20 million?, too rich for the Mets?

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Interesting , at the least Beltran could expect two years $20 million?, too rich for the Mets?

yeah. I think that's too rich for the Mets. I'd love to see it, I'd love to see them make it work somehow, but it just doesn't seem feasible.

Maybe he was just citing Beltran as a guy that was good in that role? Not specifically Beltran but a mentor as good as Beltran?

[smg58]

I would assume that the Mets would go in on another free agent if they don't land Reyes, and Beltran would actually be a good plan B if they don't have to guarantee more than two years. Whether Collins and Alderson have actually discussed that is anybody's guess.

[Edgy MD]

Looking back and ahead with Loewen.

[Lefty Specialist]

The Mets starting outfield for 2012 is shaping up with Jason Bay, Andres Torres and Lucas Duda manning the starting sports and right-handed hitter Scott Hairston coming off the bench. The fifth and final outfield spot looks to be up for grabs between Loewen and fellow lefty Mike Baxter.

Man, it's gonna be a long year.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

An awful lot seems to be depending on Andres Torres, doesn't it? If he can have a 2010 season instead of a 2011 season I kinda like the OF.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: An awful lot seems to be depending on Andres Torres, doesn't it? If he can have a 2010 season instead of a 2011 season I kinda like the OF.

I think Bay is the bigger swing guy.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I dunno. Unless Bay declines further he's gonna be 'OK' out there. If Torres declines we're gonna have problems.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I dunno. Unless Bay declines further he's gonna be 'OK' out there. If Torres declines we're gonna have problems.

Torres is financially disposable. Kirk Nieuwenhuis (or someone else) would be here faster than you can blink. If Bay puts up the awful 2011 numbers, it could be bad out there. if he rebounds even 10% (which is still way under his career average) it'll be pretty good.

[Vic Sage]

i could easily see Torres end up batting 7th-8th (with Tejada and Murphy at the top of the order) if he doesn't hit well initially, and being replaced completely if he continues his decline. Whereas Bay is going to get stuck in the middle of our lineup come hell or high water. I'd say his production is the biggest "?" and "!" in the Mets lineup, and will determine the productivity of the "O", while Santana's health will determine the "D".

[Ceetar]

Vic Sage wrote: i could easily see Torres end up batting 7th-8th (with Tejada and Murphy at the top of the order) if he doesn't hit well initially, and being replaced completely if he continues his decline. Whereas Bay is going to get stuck in the middle of our lineup come hell or high water. I'd say his production is the biggest "?" and "!" in the Mets lineup, and will determine the productivity of the "O", while Santana's health will determine the "D".

Tejada Murphy sounds likely for 1-2, but either way, I figure it's Wright-Ike-Bay to start 3-4-5, with Duda 6th and possibly overtaking Bay. If Collins gets all L-R-L-R happy, you could probably do Ike-Wright-Duda in that case depending on how they're all doing.


But I agree on the swing guys. if both Santana and Bay become ! this team will actually be fairly competitive.

[Vic Sage]

Ceetar wrote: ...if both Santana and Bay become ! this team will actually be fairly competitive.

yeah, i guess that depends on your definition of "competitive". If both give us 80% or so of their career averages, i think we'll be a .500 team, but still nowhere near the playoffs. If one approaches that level and the other remains marginal while tying up ABs or IPs, then we'll be significantly less than a .500 team. If both come up short again, we'll be at the bottom of the NLEast barrel.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think the 2012 Mets could end up being the best last place team they've ever had.

And yeah, competitive could mean that you have a good chance to win each game that you play, which could lead to a winning record, but it means a different thing if you mean competing to win a playoff berth. That seems extremely unlikely for the 2012 club. In addition to a lot needing to go right for the Mets, a lot would need to go wrong for four other teams.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think the 2012 Mets could end up being the best last place team they've ever had. And yeah, competitive could mean that you have a good chance to win each game that you play, which could lead to a winning record, but it means a different thing if you mean competing to win a playoff berth. That seems extremely unlikely for the 2012 club. In addition to a lot needing to go right for the Mets, a lot would need to go wrong for four other teams.

That's overstating it a bit, but stranger things have happened. It's not like the Mets are completely devoid of talent.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Nor are they, unlike a certain Sgt. Pompiano, devoid of honor.

#OldSchool

[Edgy MD]

Holy shitski. Where have you gone, John Menso?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think the 2012 Mets could end up being the best last place team they've ever had. And yeah, competitive could mean that you have a good chance to win each game that you play, which could lead to a winning record, but it means a different thing if you mean competing to win a playoff berth. That seems extremely unlikely for the 2012 club. In addition to a lot needing to go right for the Mets, a lot would need to go wrong for four other teams. That's overstating it a bit, but stranger things have happened. It's not like the Mets are completely devoid of talent.

Well, no.

They're just far more devoid of it than anyone else in their division right now.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: Benjamin Grimm wrote: I think the 2012 Mets could end up being the best last place team they've ever had. And yeah, competitive could mean that you have a good chance to win each game that you play, which could lead to a winning record, but it means a different thing if you mean competing to win a playoff berth. That seems extremely unlikely for the 2012 club. In addition to a lot needing to go right for the Mets, a lot would need to go wrong for four other teams. That's overstating it a bit, but stranger things have happened. It's not like the Mets are completely devoid of talent. Well, no. They're just far more devoid of it than anyone else in their division right now.

hardly.

[Edgy MD]

The Mets don't lag behind their division rivals in talent. They merely exceed them in mercy.

[Lefty Specialist]

Everyone seems to assume Murphy playing second and batting second. While I agree he's a good second place hitter, he will be a flaming, Krakatoa-East-of-Java, disaster in the middle of this infield. At least he will be for the 30 games he plays before he gets hurt again. Tell me that you won't be cringing every time a ball gets hit to second.

[Guest attgig]

Murphy actually surprised me the few games he played last year at 2nd. he was better than I thought he would be, albiet, that isn't really saying much.

if he can stay healthy, it'll be interesting seeing him in there for a whole season, and we'll see if his bat makes up for the glove there.

[Guest attgig]

I think the 2012 Mets could end up being the best last place team they've ever had. And yeah, competitive could mean that you have a good chance to win each game that you play, which could lead to a winning record, but it means a different thing if you mean competing to win a playoff berth. That seems extremely unlikely for the 2012 club. In addition to a lot needing to go right for the Mets, a lot would need to go wrong for four other teams. That's overstating it a bit, but stranger things have happened. It's not like the Mets are completely devoid of talent. Well, no. They're just far more devoid of it than anyone else in their division right now. hardly.

not that this is any definitive analysis, but.... yeah, we really are relatively devoid of talent
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/19843/nl-east-showdown

The final tally 1. Phillies, 58 points 2. Braves, 56 points 3. Marlins, 49 points 4. Nationals, 48 points 5. Mets, 29 points

even if the couple of things that you say happen happens, bay would move up maybe one spot? but Santana isn't going anywhere in his ranking.

[Ceetar]

that's pretty much the opposite of definitive analysis. I saw that last week, it's so full of anti-Mets bias and just stupidity I couldn't even make it through the whole thing.

[Theoldmole]

Krakatoa was actually west of Java.

[Edgy MD]

Lefty Specialist wrote: Everyone seems to assume Murphy playing second and batting second. While I agree he's a good second place hitter, he will be a flaming, Krakatoa-East-of-Java, disaster in the middle of this infield. At least he will be for the 30 games he plays before he gets hurt again. Tell me that you won't be cringing every time a ball gets hit to second.

And yet, I kind of love it. As Patrick Flood sees it, it's the first-baseyest team in baseball.

- Think about the offense! Think about the offense! Don�t think about what an awful fielding team this is going to be � as part of their regular defensive alignment, the Mets will be running out the worst fielding third basemen in baseball, Jason Bay in left field, and then one-time-first-basemen at first base, second base, right field, and catcher. Tejada, Davis, and Torres can all cover their ground and then some, but it�s hard to imagine those three making up for the rest of the defensive booger-eaters.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I think the 2012 Mets could end up being the best last place team they've ever had. And yeah, competitive could mean that you have a good chance to win each game that you play, which could lead to a winning record, but it means a different thing if you mean competing to win a playoff berth. That seems extremely unlikely for the 2012 club. In addition to a lot needing to go right for the Mets, a lot would need to go wrong for four other teams. That's overstating it a bit, but stranger things have happened. It's not like the Mets are completely devoid of talent. Well, no. They're just far more devoid of it than anyone else in their division right now. hardly.

Which team's roster in this division has close to the same talent level as that of the Mets?

Put another way: leaving emotion aside, which lineup/starting rotation would you not trade for the Mets' in a heartbeat?