Madoff's Curveball" by Jeffrey Toobin & other Wilpon stories

[Ceetar]

metirish wrote: Having a hard time believing that the Mets are worth anywhere near $2 billion...

There is tremendous value there. They're definitely worth more than the Dodgers.

It's really interesting though. 3% of 3 billion is 90k. The Mets are selling 3% shares at 20k.

[Edgy MD]

It doesn't matter. This is the key right here.

metirish wrote: �The Mets,� the insider said, �are probably the biggest beneficiaries of all in this Dodger sale.�

The Dodgers sale will lead to a revaluation of the what they own of the team. How much is a bickering point. They have more value in their leverage-able asset without (if I understand finance) a similar revaluation in the debt they are leveraging it to cover.

It could be good for the incoming minority investors too if they get in at the right level.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I've wavered back and forth on this suspicion over the last several months but right now I think the Mets are gonna go Chapter 11, and soon.

I figure those consultants they brought in are probably negotiating with the various lenders now on some modifications so the deal can be as "prepackaged" as they can make it, maybe as a condition of approving those "investiloans" they're allegedly so close to getting.

[metirish]

Ceetar wrote: metirish wrote: Having a hard time believing that the Mets are worth anywhere near $2 billion... There is tremendous value there. They're definitely worth more than the Dodgers. It's really interesting though. 3% of 3 billion is 90k. The Mets are selling 3% shares at 20k.

I dunno, Dodgers own Chavez Ravine , ups the value a lot.

[Frayed Knot]

The Dodger selling price also includes a [u:1xm7wogd]paid-for[/u:1xm7wogd] stadium plus some surrounding (primo location) land - so be careful about drawing too many equivalencies to the Mets.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: The Dodger selling price also includes a paid-for stadium plus some surrounding (primo location) land - so be careful about drawing too many equivalencies to the Mets.

not sure how much the paid-for status matters. It's about potential revenue isn't it? Pretty sure a capacity Citi Field makes more than a capacity Dodger stadium. I imagine the property Citi Field sits on is pretty valuable too.

Also, more Heyman, but I'm not sure how much money the Mets have lost in comparison to the Dodgers matters either. A lot of that money was/could've been/who knows related to their existing debts and expenditures, not because they're not bringing in a lot of revenue/potential revenue.

But as with most of this stuff, it's all financial mumbo jumbo and sports writers are not financial gurus and shouldn't act like one.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

not sure how much the paid-for status matters.

That's obvious.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Ceetar wrote: metirish wrote: It's really interesting though. 3% of 3 billion is 90k. The Mets are selling 3% shares at 20k.

Three percent of 3 billion is 90 million.

[Ceetar]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: not sure how much the paid-for status matters. That's obvious.

No really, how much does it matter when projecting a value of a stadium? This stuff is way above my pay grade. % matters too right? how much of the stadium is paid off? Then you get into stuff like were they paying interest or principle? (I'm looking to buy a house soon..guess I'll learn all about that..)

And how does that affect bankruptcy? Is it a wiser deal to try to string this process along until they own more of the stadium/just before the next big payment is due? or after it? in terms of filing for it?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Frayed Knot wrote: The Dodger selling price also includes a paid-for stadium plus some surrounding (primo location) land - so be careful about drawing too many equivalencies to the Mets.

The Mets' potential selling price would-- one would imagine-- include a majority interest in/the entirety of a thriving regional sports network, which-- frankly-- is a MUCH bigger revenue engine.

[Ceetar]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Ceetar wrote: metirish wrote: It's really interesting though. 3% of 3 billion is 90k. The Mets are selling 3% shares at 20k. Three percent of 3 billion is 90 million.

right duh.

but hell, even if the Mets were only valued at 1billion those they're basically selling 30million for 20 million aren't they? Wouldn't the guaranteed 3% increase in value (or whatever they're pitching as the return on investment on these) then become worthless if they're already "on sale"?

[Edgy MD]

I think the Wilpons come out of this.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: I think the Wilpons come out of this.

I've always thought that, I just hope it's not one of those paddling at the edge of the waterfall things. (well it is already, I just hope they grab the damn rope soon and climb out, or go over)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think they will maintain control as well, unfortunately. That's what those consultants are working on: A way to make that happen.

[Edgy MD]

Ah, you're predicting a restructuring bankruptcy that they survive. I see.

[bmfc1]

The Mets have denied credentials to Howard Megdal for the upcoming season:
http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2012/02/06/a-note-on-access-and-the-mets/
I don't know what the standards are for credentials but if he received credentialing last year, then not giving it to him this year is vindictive and petty. If the Mets have a problem with his writing, then sue him for libel or get another reporter to give their "side of the story."

[Ceetar]

bmfc1 wrote: The Mets have denied credentials to Howard Megdal for the upcoming season: http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2012/02/06/a-note-on-access-and-the-mets/ I don't know what the standards are for credentials but if he received credentialing last year, then not giving it to him this year is vindictive and petty. If the Mets have a problem with his writing, then sue him for libel or get another reporter to give their "side of the story."

It's petty but i'm not sure I blame them either. He was at the December blogger meetup, so it's undoubtedly about his book. And it may very well have come from above but the real issue here is with the membership of the BBWAA. I get that someone like me isn't eligible for membership but Megdal is clearly (to me anyway) on the other side of the line.

Can't sue him for libel if he was careful (which I assume he was) about not asserting any of the billion things we know with very little certainty but I imagine it was the negative slant of those uncertainties that pissed them off.

[metirish]

bmfc1 wrote: The Mets have denied credentials to Howard Megdal for the upcoming season: http://mets.lohudblogs.com/2012/02/06/a-note-on-access-and-the-mets/ I don't know what the standards are for credentials but if he received credentialing last year, then not giving it to him this year is vindictive and petty. If the Mets have a problem with his writing, then sue him for libel or get another reporter to give their "side of the story."

petty indeed

Sean asked why that was, and Jay responded that the Mets �don�t like my reporting�. The team declined to respond to my multiple attempts to reach them for a fuller explanation.

[Edgy MD]

Sheesh, I don't blame them for not liking his reporting, but I think they should have about 30 other guys on that list ahead of Howard.

Horwitz needs to be de-credentialed, I'm afraid. I appreciate all he's done for the team, but he's a dinosaur and he's hurting the men he's seeking to protect.

[batmagadanleadoff]

I wonder if Jay Horwitz reads The Pool?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

People who get Horwitz' cooperation all rave about him. I wonder sometimes if there's not a lot of shit he does right, even batting .300 on clusterfuck scandals with the Wilpons in charge would keep a man very busy.

[RealityChuck]

Banning Megdal is an even more stupid move than the Amos Otis for Joe Foy trade. The Mets will end up with far worse press than if they just ignored the book and, eventually, they will cave and give him the credentials anyway.

There is no way that the team can come out of this without looking terrible. It will be far more damaging to their reputation than any book on Madoff and there is no way they can salvage this gaffe.

[Edgy MD]

People who get Horwitz' cooperation all rave about him. I wonder sometimes if there's not a lot of shit he does right, even batting .300 on clusterfuck scandals with the Wilpons in charge would keep a man very busy.

No doubt. I'm thinking what he does right is feed you stories on days when you've got to file and you've got nothing.

• "Hey, know what Vance Wilson's vanity plates mean?"
  
• "I bet you didn't know that Manny Acosta's father is baker in Managua whose pastries were favored by both the Contras and the Sandanistas."
  
• "Scott Hairston's name, when you rearrange the letters, spells Trots into Cash. It's true!"

I'm also thinking maybe a lot of the ravers are fellow dinosaurs.

[bmfc1]

People who get Horwitz' cooperation all rave about him. I wonder sometimes if there's not a lot of shit he does right, even batting .300 on clusterfuck scandals with the Wilpons in charge would keep a man very busy. No doubt. I'm thinking what he does right is feed you stories on days when you've got to file and you've got nothing. "Hey, know what Vance Wilson's vanity plates mean?" "I bet you didn't know that Manny Acosta's father is baker in Managua whose pastries were favored by both the Contras and the Sandanistas." "Scott Hairston's name, when you rearrange the letters, spells Trots into Cash. It's true!" I'm also thinking maybe a lot of the ravers are fellow dinosaurs.

Edgy brings the truth and the funny at the same time.

I wonder if Horwitz was fired years ago and, like George Costanza, just kept showing up for work.

[Ceetar]

People who get Horwitz' cooperation all rave about him. I wonder sometimes if there's not a lot of shit he does right, even batting .300 on clusterfuck scandals with the Wilpons in charge would keep a man very busy. No doubt. I'm thinking what he does right is feed you stories on days when you've got to file and you've got nothing. "Hey, know what Vance Wilson's vanity plates mean?" "I bet you didn't know that Manny Acosta's father is baker in Managua whose pastries were favored by both the Contras and the Sandanistas." "Scott Hairston's name, when you rearrange the letters, spells Trots into Cash. It's true!" I'm also thinking maybe a lot of the ravers are fellow dinosaurs.

I still think it's probably from above Horwitz' that the call came from. The "Don't like your reporting" comment seems like his own spin on perhaps more colorful words about the book behind the scenes. But maybe that's his way of covering himself blocking access thinking he's "protecting" the club? *shrug*

Eventually they'll probably have to cave and give him access..or maybe not. Did Chris Botte ever re-get credentials the the Islanders? (Different issue, but same club reaction)

[Edgy MD]

It may well be that it came from above Horwitz. It may even be probable. But if I'm the VP of PR with forty years of juice in the organization, I'm insisting to them that the best way to get ahead of this story is by engaging with the writer, not by freezing him. Remind them that living well is the best revenge.

Klapisch still has his creds, and he's an assassin.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: It may well be that it came from above Horwitz. It may even be probable. But if I'm the VP of PR with forty years of juice in the organization, I'm insisting to them that the best way to get ahead of this story is by engaging with the writer, not by freezing him. Remind them that living well is the best revenge. Klapisch still has his creds, and he's an assassin.

Klapisch is a BBWAA member, which apparently makes you basically bulletproof? I don't know to what degree they gave info to Megdal but they certainly weren't going to give him every detail anyway.

I think we're well beyond the 'living well' option as well.

I don't know if it's Horwitz' fault or just that right now the Mets are really between a rock and a hard place and there really isn't a good solution (besides winning).

[G-Fafif]

Thin-skinned circular firing squad convening on the Mets' part.

[Ceetar]

has anyone read Megdal's book btw?

[bmfc1]

Ceetar wrote: has anyone read Megdal's book btw?

I did and it's excellent. He provides the plain-language view of the Sterling Equities financial situation from the perspectives of an economist, attorney and Mets fan.

I went into it believing that the standard of "known or should have known" about Madoff's illegal activities would be impossible to meet. People inside the company, such as Saul Katz's son, warned Sterling about Madoff and yet they continued to give him their money. After reading the damning evidence, I now think that either they knew or they are idiots.