Maine: Mad

[Guest Edgy DC]

Come on, please. Your own quote:

Maine swore he burned to pitch so badly he would "throw left-handed" if he had to. Informed of this claim, Manuel replied: "That's out of the question. But he might have more stuff lefty, I don't know. I might try that."

So it's clear to any fair reading of that passage that Manuel was speaking very specifically in response to that one non-issue. If you're seriously claiming that that's all that Manuel had to say about Maine at that moment and during other sessions with reporters, I'm certain that this is untrue.

[Ceetar]

Maine still was bothered by getting pulled so early when he showed up in the clubhouse Friday afternoon, but he forced himself to look forward, saying he would prepare himself for his next start - whenever and wherever that is. "I want to pitch," he said. "Even if I have to go out there and throw lefthanded, that's what I want to do. I want to go out there and pitch."

"I want to pitch" is the crux of his point. He's using the lefthanded thing as emphasis.


It's like if I said I was so hungry I could eat a horse..and you said you were a vegetarian.

[Guest Edgy DC]

"John Maine is a very, very, very competitive young man, very competitive," Manuel said. "We have to make decisions not only on him, but what's best for the team."

That's four verys. That sort of quote took about five seconds to find. Manual has made several others in reponse to honoring Maine's desire to pitch. Do you really think he hasn't suffiently honored that?

[Ceetar]

"John Maine is a very, very, very competitive young man, very competitive," Manuel said. "We have to make decisions not only on him, but what's best for the team." That's four verys. That sort of quote took about five seconds to find. Manual has made several others in reponse to honoring Maine's desire to pitch. Do you really think he hasn't suffiently honored that?

The issue I'm having is with the lack of communication and the public disagreements between the two.

Manuel and Warthen think Maine is hiding an injury (so they made one up and DL'd him) and that his competitiveness is so great that he's not telling them about it. (Maine said he was upset by Warthen's habitual liar comment, btw) Maine says he's fine, says he only bent over because he knew he was on a short leash (this suggests he shouldn't have been totally 'surprised' at being pulled, but I still think Manuel should've done more than just snap "you're out" on the mound and walk away. It also seems to support my point of Manuel putting so much pressure on each start and batter of Maine (and Perez) and you can't approach baseball for 35 starts like each one is do or die)

The biggest thing is the lack of a real plan. They sent Maine out there with Valdes warming up, but really with a "well, let's see what happens" attitude. Then they pulled him. They didn't decide to send him to a doctor, despite talking about it, until so late Friday that his replacement couldn't even make it to the game on time.

I understand it's three against one (Warthen, Manuel, and Barajas said he didn't think he looked right either) about whether or not Maine is actually injured, but comments like this do not seem to be a good managing style:

"My gut tells me there's something there physically," Manuel said, "but I could be wrong."

I understand not wanting to play short, so DL him, I do, but why not actually send him for tests sooner rather than later? Why not on Friday like they originally said? why wait until next week?
What if Maine is telling the truth and is completely cleared? (Do the Mets get in trouble for making up an injury to put a guy on the DL if that happens? I could see the player association having an issue with that.)

Also, on the "habitual liar" angle, Maine says he looked at tape and his mechanics were normal and he claims he got up to 89mph on his last two pitches. (gameday off mlb.com claims 85 on his three fastballs)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ceetar wrote: The issue I'm having is with the lack of communication and the public disagreements between the two.

You were taking issue with that exact quote --- and continuing to argue the issue --- and now you're just obscuring it.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: The issue I'm having is with the lack of communication and the public disagreements between the two. You were taking issue with that exact quote --- and continuing to argue the issue --- and now you're just obscuring it.

The quote just represents the issue.

Either way, Maine's admitted to pain now, though still says he doesn't think it was a DL thing, so I guess Manuel and Warthen are validated in some respect. Still doesn't explain why they didn't send him to the doc yesterday and possibly avoid the DL.

I know I'm never going to hear it, but I want to know if he felt this pain before he switched up his mechanics. Peterson was a guy that was always harping on bad pitching mechanics, and this pain was something cropped up well after Rick left. Warthen altered Maine's mechanics this spring, but it wasn't actually working for Maine, so he switched back, and now he feels the pain again.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Maine comes clean.

The pitching coach Dan Warthen called Maine a �habitual liar� about his health. That also upset Maine, who claimed he felt no pain or discomfort in his shoulder. But finally on Saturday Maine acknowledged that there was a problem with his shoulder. He will have more extensive tests Monday to see if doctors can determine what is wrong.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/sports/baseball/23mets.html

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

In a video I had seen following his 5 pitch start in Washington, Maine acknowledged pitching with pain in his right shoulder, but he downplayed it by saying he had pitched with pain for the past two years.

Apparently the surgery to remove the bone spurs in his shoulder did not alleviate the pain and discomfort.

[Ceetar]

Rockin' Doc wrote: In a video I had seen following his 5 pitch start in Washington, Maine acknowledged pitching with pain in his right shoulder, but he downplayed it by saying he had pitched with pain for the past two years. Apparently the surgery to remove the bone spurs in his shoulder did not alleviate the pain and discomfort.

well, I'd certainly lie about pain if I knew not only would I not get to pitch anymore, but the docs wouldn't know how to fix it. This doesn't bode well.

[Guest Edgy DC]

The pain of Maine would drive ceetar to feign.

Are you suggesting his lying is somehow Manuel's fault?

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: The pain of Maine would drive ceetar to feign. Are you suggesting his lying is somehow Manuel's fault?

No. I guess I give kudos to Manuel and Warthen for guessing right. (i still have plenty of issue with how it was handled) I wish they'd had more reasoning than "my gut tells me" but they were right. How right, is yet to be determined, and how to fix Maine is the biggest issue, because he's had plenty of success when he's healthy, and the Mets need him. Actually, if Maine was feeling pain still post surgery last year when he pitched, that's probably when he should've spoken up. I can definitely believe he was pitching with pain all year. He did hit 92-93 once or twice on the gun, and also 87-88, with his fastball. The biggest problem he had was that his slider/change is 82-83, which is too close. If he could've slowed that down, he still would've had plenty of success. I really wonder if him switching his mechanics again made this problem worse, or if all the extra side-work he was doing to readjust said mechanics was too much for his shoulder. I even said in the offseason that I hope they find ways to get Maine an extra day when they can, because all his injuries always seemed fatigued/strain type injuries, and maybe rest and limiting his between-start work (something Warthen cited this offseason as well, although if they kept up with it, especially after he readjusted, I have no idea) was something that was needed to make him last the whole season, pain free.

[Guest themetfairy]

Maine pitched a rehab start with the B-Mets in Trenton today. The good news is that he didn't give up any runs in 4 innings. The bad news is that he threw too many pitches, including too many first pitch balls. But overall, it seemed like a successful first game back.