First pitch

[seawolf17]

Gary, cut it out. Seriously. Just stop. Nobody likes a whiner.

[Guest Edgy DC]

="batmagadanleadoff":15oqruaq] ="Edgy DC":15oqruaq]There's 20 people ahead of him on the list of potential retired numbers.[/quote:15oqruaq] I'm kind a strict-ler for retiring uniform numbers. Carter was a Met for five seasons and he outright sucked for two and a half of those.[/quote:15oqruaq] Yeah, I sort of meant that ironically, as in "There's 20 guys ahead of him and the line isn't getting shorter and nobody's staffing the window, and I'm OK with that." batmagadanleadoff Apr 01 2009 08:56 AM ="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ]I like your Danny Heep quote ... because I agree with it. If Piazza doesn't have a World Series ring, it's probably because his teammates, collectively, weren't as good as Carter's. And maybe because one particular asshole didn't feel like running the bases the way they're supposed to be run. But that's another story, based on a whole lot of unfair assumptions --- but also about teammates. Seconded heartily. Something occurs to me: If Pearlman's book and the clubhouse anecdotes are at all accurate... in a clubhouse full of arrogant tough guys who consumed enough cocaine to literally support the nation of Colombia, how in the course of 162 games and three weeks of playoffs did Gary f-ing Carter avoid getting hit in the face once or twice? I have no problem going off on Carter. Why does this guy --undeservedly-- get so much disproportionate credit for the Mets success under Johnson? Why is his old uniform number in hibernation? World Series rings? There's about 50 Mets in team history with one of those. I can easily name 10 ring-owners who had Met careers that blow Carter's away. Cleon Jones has a ring. So does Tug. Doc and Darryl. Keith. Ron Darling and Sid Fernandez had better Met careers than Gary. Why is Gary supposedly near the top of the list of Mets under consideration to have their numbers retired? If his days as an Expo never existed ... if Carter was instead, a promising 1985 rookie who petered out two years later due to a career-damaging injury, would anyone ever be campaigning for Gary's number to be retired? Of course not. So is this all about Carter's Expo days getting mixed in with his Met accomplishments? Are the Mets supposed to be the torch-bearers for Gary's Expo legacy? Are we supposed to retire uniform numbers (officially or unofficially) based on the player's accomplishments with Mets opponents? I never understood the Carter hype. batmagadanleadoff Apr 01 2009 08:58 AM ="Edgy DC":182rnt2d] ="batmagadanleadoff":182rnt2d] ="Edgy DC":182rnt2d]There's 20 people ahead of him on the list of potential retired numbers.[/quote:182rnt2d] I'm kind a strict-ler for retiring uniform numbers. Carter was a Met for five seasons and he outright sucked for two and a half of those.[/quote:182rnt2d] Yeah, I sort of meant that ironically, as in "There's 20 guys ahead of him and the line isn't getting shorter and nobody's staffing the window, and I'm OK with that."[/quote:182rnt2d] I understood. I wouldn't campaign for the Mets to retire Kranepool's 7 or Tug's 45 or Cleon's 21, but they also have Mets WS rings, and Met careers that were better than Carter's.

[batmagadanleadoff]

="LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr"] ]I like your Danny Heep quote ... because I agree with it. If Piazza doesn't have a World Series ring, it's probably because his teammates, collectively, weren't as good as Carter's. And maybe because one particular asshole didn't feel like running the bases the way they're supposed to be run. But that's another story, based on a whole lot of unfair assumptions --- but also about teammates. Seconded heartily. Something occurs to me: If Pearlman's book and the clubhouse anecdotes are at all accurate... in a clubhouse full of arrogant tough guys who consumed enough cocaine to literally support the nation of Colombia, how in the course of 162 games and three weeks of playoffs did Gary f-ing Carter avoid getting hit in the face once or twice?

I have no problem going off on Carter. Why does this guy --undeservedly-- get so much disproportionate credit for the Mets success under Johnson? Why is his old uniform number in hibernation? World Series rings? There's about 50 Mets in team history with one of those. I can easily name 10 ring-owners who had Met careers that blow Carter's away. Cleon Jones has a ring. So does Tug. Doc and Darryl. Keith. Ron Darling and Sid Fernandez had better Met careers than Gary.

Why is Gary supposedly near the top of the list of Mets under consideration to have their numbers retired? If his days as an Expo never existed ... if Carter was instead, a promising 1985 rookie who petered out two years later due to a career-damaging injury, would anyone ever be campaigning for Gary's number to be retired? Of course not. So is this all about Carter's Expo days getting mixed in with his Met accomplishments? Are the Mets supposed to be the torch-bearers for Gary's Expo legacy? Are we supposed to retire uniform numbers (officially or unofficially) based on the player's accomplishments with Mets opponents? I never understood the Carter hype.

[batmagadanleadoff]

="Edgy DC":182rnt2d] ="batmagadanleadoff":182rnt2d] ="Edgy DC":182rnt2d]There's 20 people ahead of him on the list of potential retired numbers.[/quote:182rnt2d] I'm kind a strict-ler for retiring uniform numbers. Carter was a Met for five seasons and he outright sucked for two and a half of those.[/quote:182rnt2d] Yeah, I sort of meant that ironically, as in "There's 20 guys ahead of him and the line isn't getting shorter and nobody's staffing the window, and I'm OK with that."[/quote:182rnt2d] I understood. I wouldn't campaign for the Mets to retire Kranepool's 7 or Tug's 45 or Cleon's 21, but they also have Mets WS rings, and Met careers that were better than Carter's.