Memories of the Collapse (split from Baseball Prospectus)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I'm surpremely CAHNfident as compared to last year. I feel better 3 up/17 left today than I did about 7 up/17 left a year ago.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I don't know. I was pretty confident with the 7-game lead, I think. (We could look back in the archives and see what we were all thinking.) It was after losing this game, if I recall correctly, that I first felt the collapse coming on.

I do like the softness of the schedule, but I took comfort in that last year, too. And seeing how tough the Nationals played over the last two days didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about next week.

[Frayed Knot]

My lack of CAHNfidence last year had to do with what would happen once we go TO
the playoffs based on how things had gone over the previous 3 months or so.

But while it was still '7 with 17' with what looked like a favorable schedule it didn't occur
to me that we wouldn't get there.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Yeah, I guess what I'm saying is that by then they had been playing so averagely for so long that the unthinkable, while unlikely, wouldn't be all that surprising or all so undeserved.

This year's team, despite its flaws, just appears to be made of stronger stuff. Sure they could Easley blow it, but I have CAHNfidence they won't.

[Guest AG/DC]

Last year a bullpen collapse was so deflating. This year, it's like, "Fuck it, we can punch back," even when we don't.

I made a thread last year directed to the offense, instructing them to keep pounding, and not depend on the bullpen at all. It took them this long to listen.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I don't know. I was pretty confident with the 7-game lead, I think. (We could look back in the archives and see what we were all thinking.) It was after losing this game, if I recall correctly, that I first felt the collapse coming on. I do like the softness of the schedule, but I took comfort in that last year, too. And seeing how tough the Nationals played over the last two days didn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about next week.

For me, it was the game against Washington where they were down by a bunch after bullpen screw-ups, Marlon Anderson hit a bases loaded triple to put them back up -- and then the pen pissed it away again.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Let's split this into a memories of the collapse thread

[Benjamin Grimm]

Good idea. Done!

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

My collapse memories:

1) The gay dame the Phillies won on the squibler to the mound

2) The Billy Wagner isn't available game

3) The Let's Blow the Marlon Anderson Triple game.

2 and 3 might have been the same game. It's all mushed rttogether for me.

[metirish]

Starting Humber in a big game.

[soupcan]

Tom 'I'm not devastated' Glavine.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Wasn't the Marlon Anderson triple game against Florida? (I may be confusing my Marlins with my Marlons.) I think that was the same game when Willie made his panic move, pulling Feliciano after one walk with a three-run lead. That was the game when I became irrevocably opposed to his remaining as Mets manager.

I guess this is the month to remember the collapse, whether we want to or not. Maybe it will be cathartic to recall last year's misery while the Mets push on to a successful finish this year. (Or, if they fall apart again, we'll at least be better prepared to cope with it.)

I think I want a World Series championship this year more than any other since 1986. A quick eradication of the 2007 collapse would be much better than the 16 years it took for the Phillies. Combine that with this being the last year at Shea, it would be a particularly good year to win it all.

[Guest themetfairy]

I was there for the Glavine finale. 'Nuff said.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I was watching on TV. (I was stuck with the Marlins telecast, which made it all the more unpleasant. Tommy Hutton was crowing with delight at the Mets misery.)

Shea was rocking as the game started. There was so much positive energy there. And then BOOM, the place suddenly became a morgue.

It was nice that the Mets had that one final chance to reverse the collapse. It was horrible that they blew it so quickly, and so convincingly. (Of course, there was still hope; the Phillies had a later start time and had they also lost, there would have been a tie-breaking playoff game at Citizens Bank Park the following day. But that seemed like, and was, a slender hope to hang on to.)

[TransMonk]

I was sick to my stomach all day that day. That was the only time I can remember being physically ill because of baseball.

Still, in hindsight, losing to the Cardinals in 2006 was worse for me. That 2006 team seemed like a team of destiny and was the best team in baseball for most of the year. The 2007 squad SUCKED for a lot of that season and the real collapse happened in June and July rather than in September. They were never good enough to beat those other playoff teams in October of 2007.

[soupcan]

I was at a little league practice with my son and was checking the score on my BlackBerry. We were so looking forward to going home and watching the rest of the game after practice.

By the time the practice was over so were the Mets.

Such a blow because wasn't Maine's 1-hitter the day before? He gave us so much hope that the bleeding had finally stopped and then that douchebag Glavine...

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

To me, the loss to the Cardinals was the start of the '07 doldrums -- really, from that September on, the offense was complete shit. History will show the Willie randolph Era peaked on July 30, 2006 when Duaner Sanchez went out for tacos.

[metirish]

I remember several times my wife getting upset with me for getting her into Mets baseball , " how can you watch this , it's heartbreaking".....watching the game last night she was all excited at the end and wanted to go see a game.


Even my wife commented last night that there is a different feeling now with tis team than last September.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I'm pretty sure I was the first to use the C-word (not the one that Fman uses) in this forum.

http://archives.cranepoolforum.net/7300/f14_t7390.shtml

I see I actually took "credit" for it in the final post!

What kicked off my dread reflex was the way the Mets played the day before in the final game against the Phillies. They were playing like they were afraid to lose. But even though I saw it coming, I think, deep down, that I believed they would turn it around before it was too late. I had, like others, little hope that they'd go far in the playoffs, but I really wanted them to at least get that division title.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: Wasn't the Marlon Anderson triple game against Florida? (I may be confusing my Marlins with my Marlons.) I think that was the same game when Willie made his panic move, pulling Feliciano after one walk with a three-run lead. That was the game when I became irrevocably opposed to his remaining as Mets manager.

I remembered correctly. This was the game: http://www.leaptoad.com/mets/gamedetail.php?gameno=7384

The Mets were leading 7-4, Marlins batting in the bottom of the ninth. Feliciano opens the inning by allowing a single and Willie pulls him for Sosa, and leaves Sosa in to give up a double, a ground ball out, and two more singles before getting the second and third outs.

That quick hook just killed me. It sent a message of panic to me, and, I suspect, to the team.

The Mets, though, did go on to win their next three games. And in the third of those games, when Delgado hit a three-run homer, I thought that they had turned things around.

That three-game winning streak was followed by five consecutive losses at Shea. (Three to Washington, one to St. Louis, and one to the Cardinals.)

Maine then pitched his famous gem in the second-to-last game of the season and turned things over to Glavine for the final game...

[Guest AG/DC]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: That quick hook just killed me. It sent a message of panic to me, and, I suspect, to the team.

You've said that before, and maybe so, but Manuel has been crazy with the quickhook, with some success, of late.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I know he's made a few that did remind me of the one with Feliciano last year, but I didn't get the sense that it came from panic. I suppose it was a different situation. Or, of course, it had something to do with MY frame of mind at the time. Our perceptions are based on a mixture of what we see and what we're feeling at the time.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Yup, that was the game. The Fish, of course. What a punch in the gut to come back like that then blow it again.

What's interesting to me looking at the box score is that 10 of those players in that game are ex-Mets now -- not counting the assorted ex-Mets on the Marlins at the time.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I remembered correctly. This was the game: http://www.leaptoad.com/mets/gamedetail.php?gameno=7384 The Mets were leading 7-4, Marlins batting in the bottom of the ninth. Feliciano opens the inning by allowing a single and Willie pulls him for Sosa, and leaves Sosa in to give up a double, a ground ball out, and two more singles before getting the second and third outs. That quick hook just killed me. It sent a message of panic to me, and, I suspect, to the team.

What was crazy was that he did that knowing (or not knowing?!?) Wagner would be unavailable. This was the Wagner-isn't-available game. Wags either forgot to tell Willie, or did and Willie forgot, or something. But I hated Wagner after this game as I recall it. Glavine too, since he made a mess of his start.

Gonna find the thread and relive the pain.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

http://archives.cranepoolforum.net/7400/f14_t7431.shtml

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Wow. I had completely forgotten that a David Wright error set them up. But look at all the prescient things we say!

[Guest AG/DC]

Zvon wrote: I'll trust Schoenweis for one batter. One batter.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

The other crazy thing that night was the Phillies concurrently overcoming a 6-0 deficit and winning.

That's the other thng about the Collapse. It was a big failure on our part to be sure, but easy to forget the Phillies had to play almost as good as we played bad to take it, and they did.

[metirish]

I'm shattered all over again after reading that IGT.

[Guest themetfairy]

I remember having to make myself go to the supermarket the next day. The place is full of MFY fans and Phillies phans, and whenever I go there I meet at least four or five people who want to talk baseball with me. I don't want to be there October 1st, but I went - I didn't want them to think I was a wimp. To their credit, none of them gave me a hard time about the collapse.

It did make me feel better when we were all in the same elimination boat a few days later.