Omar watch?

[Frayed Knot]

But then the 50 cents on the dollar part doesn't make sense.
You only do that for guys you WANT to get rid of, not for players of value.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Frayed Knot wrote: But then the 50 cents on the dollar part doesn't make sense. You only do that for guys you WANT to get rid of, not for players of value.

Yeah, but you could wind up giving away a valuable player for what you think is equal value, but wind up getting much less in return, especially if you consider perceived short term value versus long term value. I'm thinking along the lines of Mora for Bordick.

[Frayed Knot]

The possibility of a stupid trade exists anywhere at anytime by anyone ... but giving up Mora - at a time where they had a contending club and desperately needed a SS - is hardly an equivelent situation to dumping one or both of two legit All-Stars in some kind of quick-fix scheme. If you're desperate to contend you add to those guys, you don't shop them.

[Guest AG/DC]

The contemporary equivelant of Mora, a late-blooming, neglected, and unheralded talent who may or may not be on the verge, is... I dunno, Muniz?

I guess there is none, not on the offensive side of the ball, anyhow. Pagan might have been had he stayed healthy.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

="Frayed Knot"]If you're desperate to contend you add to those guys, you don't shop them.

Right, I understand. But you don't think it's possible to trade a core player in an attempt to add to the team as a whole? Say (and this is just off the top of my head) Toronto offered Vernon Wells and AJ Burnett for Beltran and Pelfrey. Or Houston offered Miguel Tejada and Carlos Lee for Reyes, Fernando Martinez, Pelfrey and Niese. You don't think it's possible Omar could make a move like that? I don't think it's probable, but I worry anyway.

[Frayed Knot]

]Say (and this is just off the top of my head) Toronto offered Vernon Wells and AJ Burnett for Beltran and Pelfrey. Or Houston offered Miguel Tejada and Carlos Lee for Reyes, Fernando Martinez, Pelfrey and Niese. You don't think it's possible Omar could make a move like that? I don't think it's probable, but I worry anyway.

Anything's possible.
But those scenarios you lay out above are stars for stars deals.
The "50 cents on the dollar" comment - which is what started me jumping in on all this - implies something totally different and for very different reasons.

[Guest attgig]

Centerfield wrote: Are they to blame? What if you're asking them to be something they are not?

3. Wright: .253 with RISP 6/14 hrs are solo
4. Beltran: .301 w/ RISP 5/11 hrs are solo
5. Delgado: .197 w/ RISP. 8/11 hrs are solo


when your 3-4-5 hitters are producing like that, reyes and castillo's obp is useless.

[Guest AG/DC]

I come not to beat up on our GM, but I disagree with the implication that Beltran's and Wright's clutch numbers are undermining an otherwise well-constructed lineup. We've been faking it in left and right all year long. At first we have no plan B when the unlikelihood of plan A flourishing was clear.

[Guest attgig]

AG/DC wrote: I come not to beat up on our GM, but I disagree with the implication that Beltran's and Wright's clutch numbers are undermining an otherwise well-constructed lineup. We've been faking it in left and right all year long. At first we have no plan B when the unlikelihood of plan A flourishing was clear.

but that's part of it. sure the rest of the lineup sucks, but you'd win a few more games if your 3/4 hitters were actually doing something when your 1/2 hitters were on base.
Honestly, I'm annoyed that forever and a day, everyone was hating on Willie, but now that he's gone, everyone's hating on Omar. I'm not the biggest fan of the guy (any liking of omar disappeared with the 4 year contract to castillo), but there is something called a team. You can't scapegoat the manager and gm when the team isn't producing. The constant fingerpointing is annoying, and I figure I'll fingerpoint the player that everyone loves because you can't POSSIBLY hate david wright, he's Jesus, second coming.
yes, even he's not pulling his weight this year.

[nymr83]

he's not hitting as well as last year to this point, but at a .369 OBP/.466 SLG he's not nearly the problem. if the whole team did that they'd lead the league in runs.
Beltran's numbers are equally fine, and reyes must have picked things up without my noticing because his OBP is back at the .350 level of the last 2 years. castillo has even gotten on at a .350 clip, though thats not enough when you slug .300.
the problem in this lineup is delgado and leftfield producing nothing while rightfield is only productive when church is healthy. it doesnt help that schneider isnt a good hitter (though you knew that coming in and he's hit beyond reasonable expectations) and the bench has been really bad too

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Frayed Knot wrote: But those scenarios you lay out above are stars for stars deals. The "50 cents on the dollar" comment - which is what started me jumping in on all this - implies something totally different and for very different reasons.

Then I apologize for choosing a poor phrase. By 50 cents on the dollar, I meant only that the value of the players returning in the trade might be, after factoring in production, salary and longevity, worth half the value surrendered. I didn't mean to say it would be a "dump" trade, if that's what that phrase implies.

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

attgig wrote: TI'll fingerpoint the player that everyone loves because you can't POSSIBLY hate david wright, he's Jesus, second coming. yes, even he's not pulling his weight this year.

Jeez, kinda tough to hate on a good fielding third baseman with a .369 OBP and a .466 SLG who's only making 5 million dollars this year. And as to his "clutchiness", I'll have to use the A-Rod argument- he's got 56 RBI this year (I know, awful stat), on pace for, like 115. Are all those coming in non-"clutch" situations?

[Guest AG/DC]

Hey, Seawolf hasn't bought his Omar Watch yet.

[Guest attgig]

Vince Coleman Firecracker wrote: ="attgig"]TI'll fingerpoint the player that everyone loves because you can't POSSIBLY hate david wright, he's Jesus, second coming. yes, even he's not pulling his weight this year. Jeez, kinda tough to hate on a good fielding third baseman with a .369 OBP and a .466 SLG who's only making 5 million dollars this year. And as to his "clutchiness", I'll have to use the A-Rod argument- he's got 56 RBI this year (I know, awful stat), on pace for, like 115. Are all those coming in non-"clutch" situations?

it's a joke that he won the gold glove last year. How many errors did he have and win the gold glove? He'll make spectacular plays, but always makes me nervous on the routine.
56 rbis. played in every single inning... no correllation... right
batting 253 with RISP, and you're not willing to admit that he's not doing what he's capable of?
I've been frustrated with how often we've left the bases loaded only to come away the inning without scoring a single run. And yeah, the whole team is to blame, but I just want to emphasize the WHOLE team, not everyone except Jesus second coming.

[Guest AG/DC]

It's not a joke that he won the gold glove. Any more than the Gold Glove is a joke.

Everybody has different meaurements for defense. Of course you're nervous. You have a stake in his performance.

I don't think he deserved it either, but until we can find an objective measure and stop using defensive performance only when it suits our point, we shouldn't worry about the Gold Glove. He's more or less a good fielder. His worst problem historically is a scattershot arm.

I think everyone acknowledges that "he's not hitting as well as last year to this point," but the Second Coming crap is a straw man argument. He's not pulling his weight? You know where Wright ranks in salary on this team? Tenth. He sits behind Johan Santana, Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado, Pedro Martinez, Billy Wagner, Moises Alou, Orlando Hernandez, Oliver Perez, and Luis Castillo.

How many of them have pulled the weight Wright has?

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

="attgig"]it's a joke that he won the gold glove last year.

I agree, but he is a good fielder. The Fielding Bible has him at +13 last year, Baseball Reference shows he has a career RFg of 2.64 (vs the league's 2.33), Baseball Prospectus shows a career 105 Rate2, and THT has him averaging about 4 fielding Win Shares a year. The very worst can say about his fielding is that he's only average, but he's probably better than that.

As for his offense, yeah he's off by a little bit this year, but he still has a 20.8 VORP, a .306 EQA, and a 129 OPS+. Wright is not part of the problem on this team. At all.

[Guest attgig]

the point of all my posts is saying that, everyone is a part of the team. the team is doing crappy. everyone's responsible. I'm tired of the finger pointing. ooh, fire willie, and we'll never lose again. oooh, now fire omar, and we'll never lose again.

it's a freakin team, and everyone is responsible. the fingerpointing is lame, childish, and i'm tired of it.

[Guest AG/DC]

I agree that scapegoating is bad. I don't agree that everyone is doing it.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I thought that once we fired Willie, we'd never lose again.