New York Mets Internet Hall Of Fame Rules and Ballot

[stevejrogers]

Thought I'd re-start this project I had going a few years back called The Mets Fans Hall of Fame. Hopefully I'll see if I can find a home for it as well!

This concept is borrowed from the , basically the Internet Community fanbase will vote, regular BBWAA HOF style

Well, without much further adue, here is the Rules:

NEW YORK METS FAN HALL OF FAME RULES

ELECTION RULES FOR INDUCTION IN THE MET FANS HALL OF FAME:

Election Rules

I. General

1) Elections for induction into the New York Mets Fans Hall of Fame will be held annually during the off season. The 2006 voting will take place between Saturday 11/25/06 to Monday, 12/25/06

4) Any member of the Internet community is eligible to vote. The ballot and rules will be posted on the Mets newsgroups, message boards and
mailing lists

5) Results of the year's election will be posted to the newsgroups, message boards mailing lists.


II. Eligibility

1) Any Mets player from the past is eligible provided

a) He played at least 5 years as a Met and

Has been retired from major league baseball

2) Any Mets manager or coach is eligible provided

a) He must have manager or coach for at least 4 years

3) Any Mets broadcaster is eligible provided

a) He must have broadcasted Met games for at least 5 years

III. Elections

1) Any one on the net, newsgroups and mailing list may vote for up to ten former players, up to five managers/coaches, up to
five broadcasters and up to five other Mets' personnel. This is done by sending a completed ballot directly to me, Steve J.
Rogers at mlbaseballtalk@gmail.com
On the internet just cut and past the ballot with your selections noted and send it to me. Any ballots posted to the newsgroups
or mailing lists will be ignored for vote-counting purposes, as the election is secret ballot.

2) An inductee must receive a supermajority of votes according to the following schedule:

a) Players 75%

Other Personnel 70%


Email: mlbaseballtalk@gmail.com

[Guest iramets]

SteveJRogers wrote: Thought I'd re-start this project I had going a few years back called The Mets Fans Hall of Fame. Hopefully I'll see if I can find a home for it as well!

You need some more planning, IMO.

] This concept is borrowed from the , basically the Internet Community fanbase will vote, regular BBWAA HOF style Well, without much further adue, here is the Rules:

It's "ado" (and "here are the rules.")

]NEW YORK METS FAN HALL OF FAME RULES ELECTION RULES FOR INDUCTION IN THE MET FANS HALL OF FAME: Election Rules I. General 1) Elections for induction into the New York Mets Fans Hall of Fame will be held annually during the off season. The 2006 voting will take place between Saturday 11/25/06 to Monday, 12/25/06 4) Any member of the Internet community is eligible to vote

.

So if I have, like, three dozen user names, that means I get three dozen votes? Sound fair and well-thought-out to me. And my dog ('irawoofwoof") gets another vote on top of those? Fabulous.

] The ballot and rules will be posted on the Mets newsgroups, message boards and mailing lists 5) Results of the year's election will be posted to the newsgroups, message boards mailing lists. II. Eligibility 1) Any Mets player from the past is eligible provided a) He played at least 5 years as a Met and Has been retired from major league baseball 2) Any Mets manager or coach is eligible provided a) He must have manager or coach for at least 4 years

So Casey's ineligible? And Gil just squeeked in? Cool. You've obviously devoted years of careful thought here.

] 3) Any Mets broadcaster is eligible provided a) He must have broadcasted

What's your motto on verbs ("here is the Rules," "must have manager or coach," 'must have broadcasted")? "If it's a verb, we can mangle it?"

]Met games for at least 5 years III. Elections 1) Any one on the net, newsgroups and mailing list may vote for up to ten former players, up to five managers/coaches, up to five broadcasters and up to five other Mets' personnel. This is done by sending a completed ballot directly to me, Steve J. Rogers at mlbaseballtalk@gmail.com On the internet just cut and past the ballot with your selections noted and send it to me.

"Past?" Well, you're consistent, I'll give you that.

]Any ballots posted to the newsgroups or mailing lists will be ignored for vote-counting purposes, as the election is secret ballot.

Bless you for protecting my sacrosant privacy! If it got out how "Iramets" voted in so sacred an election, I could get tarred-and-feathered by an angry mob of drooling, demented Yankee fans (or is that redundant?)

]2) An inductee must receive a supermajority of votes according to the following schedule:

Is "schedule" the word you want? I know it's not a verb here, but you've done a fine job mangling it anyway.

] a) Players 75% Other Personnel 70%

Is this distinction worth making? Wouldn't you be better off to ask for a high nominating percentage, and then run a series of increasingly lower-percentage runoffs? This would assure you'd have good candidates on the ballot, and a lively discussion. Also I'd shoot for having more constituiencies, all of whom would have to agree on candidates, to prevent the mass of mindless morons having their way with you (unless clusterfucking is your thing. It may be, since this whole process seems designed for the maximum clusterfuck effect. Let the games begin!)

[stevejrogers]

] So Casey's ineligible? And Gil just squeeked in? Cool. You've obviously devoted years of careful thought here.

1962-1966, thats all or parts of 4 seasons my friend. Stengel and Hodges were both inducted if you see the ballot post.

] a) Players 75% Other Personnel 70%

Is this distinction worth making? Wouldn't you be better off to ask for a high nominating percentage, and then run a series of increasingly lower-percentage runoffs? This would assure you'd have good candidates on the ballot, and a lively discussion. Also I'd shoot for having more constituiencies, all of whom would have to agree on candidates, to prevent the mass of mindless morons having their way with you (unless clusterfucking is your thing. It may be, since this whole process seems designed for the maximum clusterfuck effect. Let the games begin!)

[stevejrogers]

Remember email your votes to me at mlbaseballtalk@gmail.com

Do not post them here except for debating purposes

NEW YORK METS FAN HALL OF FAME BALLOT

Results of Past Elections:
1999:
Keith Hernandez, Tom Seaver, Gary Carter, Mookie Wilson
Davey Johnson, Ralph Kiner, Bob Murphy, Casey Stengel

2000:
Jerry Koosman, Gil Hodges


2001:
Tug McGraw


Players:
Inactive (Did not play a game in the majors in 2006) players with 5 or more years played with the Mets

Vote for as many as ten

INFIELDERS:
Wally Backman 1980-1988 Ken Boswell 1967-1974
Hubie Brooks 1980-1984, 1991 Kevin Elster 1986-1992
Ron Gardenhire 1981-1985 Wayne Garrett 1969-1976
Doug Flynn 1977-1981 Matt Franco 1996-2000
Buddy Harrelson 1965-1977 Gregg Jefferies 1987-1991
Howard Johnson 1985-1993 Mike Jorgensen 1968, 1970-1971, 1980-1983
Dave Kingman 1975-1977, 1981-1983 Ed Kranepool 1962-1979
Dave Magadan 1986-1992 Teddy Martinez 1970-1974
Felix Millan 1973-1977 Keith Miller 1987-1991
John Milner 1971-1977 Rey Ordonez 1996-2002
Tim Teufel 1986-1991 Joel Youngblood 1977-1982

OUTFIELDERS
Tommie Agee 1968-1972 Bruce Boisclair 1974-1979
Bobby Bonilla 1992-1995, 1999 Mark Carreon 1987-1992
Len Dykstra 1985-1989 George Foster 1982-1986
Jim Hickman 1962-1966 Butch Huskey 1993, 1995-1998
Cleon Jones 1963, 1965-1975 Lee Mazzilli 1976-1981, 1986-1989
Kevin McReynolds 1987-1991, 1994 Rusty Staub 1972-1975, 1981-198
Darryl Strawberry 1983-1990 Ron Swoboda 1965-1970

CATCHERS
Duffy Dyer 1968-1974 Jerry Grote 1966-1977
Ron Hodges 1973-1984 Todd Hundley 1990-1998
Barry Lyons 1986-1990 Mackey Sasser 1988-1992
John Stearns 1975-1984 Alex Trevino 1978-1981, 1990

PITCHERS
Rick Aguilera 1985-1989 Neil Allen 1979-1983
Bob Apodaca 1973-1977 David Cone 1987-1992, 2003
Ron Darling 1983-1991 Nino Espinosa 1974-1978
Sid Fernandez 1984-1993 John Franco 1990-2001, 2003-2004
Danny Frisella 1967-1972 Dwight Gooden 1984-1994
Tom Hausman 1978-1982 Jeff Innis 1987-1993
Al Jackson 1962-1965, 1968-1969 Bobby Jones 1993-2000
Al Leiter 1998-2004 Terry Leach 1981-1982, 1985-1989
Skip Lockwood 1975-1979 Ed Lynch 1980-1986
Jon Matlack 1971-1977 Jim McAndrew 1968-1973
Roger McDowell 1985-1989 Randy Myers 1985-1989
Bob Ojeda 1986-1990 Jesse Orosco 1979, 1981-1987
Rick Reed 1997-2001 Grant Roberts 2000-2004
Nolan Ryan 1966, 1968-1971 Ray Sadecki 1970-1974, 1977
Doug Sisk 1982-1987 Craig Swan 1973-1984
Ron Taylor 1967-1971 Hank Webb 1972-1976
Turk Wendell 1997-2001 Pat Zachry 1977-1982

Managers and Coaches:
Met Managers and Coaches with 4 or more years of service with the Mets

Vote for as many as 5

Yogi Berra Manager 1972-1975, Coach 1965-1971 Dallas Green 1993-1996
Joe Torre 1977-1981 Bobby Valentine 1996-2002
Bob Apodaca 1996-1999 Phil Cavaretta 1975-1978
Mike Cubbage 1990-1996 Buddy Harrelson 1982, 1985-1990
Vern Hoscheit 1984-1987 Frank Howard 1982-1984, 1994-1996
Willie Mays 1974-1980 Tommy McCraw 1992-1996
Roy McMillan 1973-1976 Randy Niemann 1997-1999, 2001-2002
Greg Pavlick 1985-1986, 1988-1991, 1994-1996 Joe Pignatano 1968-1981
Bill Robinson 1984-1989 Sheriff Robinson 1964-1967, 1972
Tom Robson 1997-1999, 2000, 2002 Cookie Rojas 1997-2000
Mel Stottlemyre 1984-1993 Rube Walker 1968-1981
Mookie Wilson 1997-2002 Bobby Wine 1993-1996
Eddie Yost 1968-1976

Broadcasters
Met Broadcasters with 5 or more years of service with the Mets

Vote for as many as 5

Luis Alicea 1987-2006 (Spanish Radio)
Billy Berroa 1987-1993, 1997-2006 (Spanish Radio)
Gary Cohen 1989-2006 (Radio & TV)
Ed Coleman 1996-2006 (Radio)
Fran Healy 1984-2005 (TV)
Keith Hernandez 1999-2006 (TV)
Matt Loughlin 1996-2005 (TV)
Tim McCarver 1983-1998 (TV)
Renato Morffi 1991-1996 (Spanish Radio)
Lindsey Nelson 1962-1978 (Radio & TV)
Ted Robinson 2001-2005 (Radio & TV)
Howie Rose 1987-1991, 1994-2006 (Radio & TV)
Armando Talavera 1987-1993 (Spanish Radio)
Gary Thorne 1985-1988, 1996-2002 (Radio &TV)
Tom Seaver 1999-2005 (TV)
Rusty Staub 1987-1995 (TV)
Steve Zabriskie 1983-1989 (TV)


OTHERS: Write in up to 5 Met personnel that does not fit into the other categories (i.e. GMs, owners, vice presidents, scouts,
ect...)

[Guest iramets]

SteveJRogers wrote: 1962-1966, thats all or parts of 4 seasons my friend. Stengel and Hodges were both inducted if you see the ballot post.

Yes, [Larry David tone of voice here] my friend [/Larry David tone of voice here], but Stengel managed for fewer than four seasons and your rule above just says "four seasons," not "any part of four seasons." So you've either broken your own rule by inducting Stengel, or your rule is incorrectly written.

[stevejrogers]

="iramets"] ="SteveJRogers"]1962-1966, thats all or parts of 4 seasons my friend. Stengel and Hodges were both inducted if you see the ballot post. ] Yes, [Larry David tone of voice here] my friend [/Larry David tone of voice here], but Stengel managed for fewer than four seasons and your rule above just says "four seasons," not "any part of four seasons." So you've either broken your own rule by inducting Stengel, or your rule is incorrectly written. Thats fair. HahnSolo Nov 25 2006 01:25 PM It also applies to Dykstra and McDowell. Neither of them played five full seasons as a Met. Same goes for Aguilera. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 10:20 AM BTW Ira, 4th time I've done this and NO ONE bothered to pick up on the grammar errors. Thanks Geez, I should think about some copy editing courses at Iona... Later KC Nov 26 2006 12:18 PM You'd think after four times it wouldn't give a person a headache to read it. I mean really, how many people got through this whole post without wanting to bang their heads on the keyboard? I'm not picking on you, but you're big on this, "I'm an internet legend" and you're a "Quiet Leader" on mofo, and when someone questions your grammar (correctly, I might add) you're of- fended and you're pointing to the fact that it's well received on other venues or was it really met with indifference because ... no one cares? What's the fascination with the Mets HOF anyways? There's a list of guys who are pretty much deserving and they get a bust in The Diamondclub lobby that in no way really resembles them (cheapass Mets can get good artists?), and maybe there's one or two who you could make a case for aren't in or are that maybe don't belong. Again, who cares? Note: The preceding post may contain errors in grammar, spelling, and reason. Any resemblance to a post that is clear, well thought out, or even warranted is pure coincidence. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 12:57 PM "Quiet Leader" is the default level designation for someone with whatever number of posts (I think it starts in the 700 range) I have over there, not a custom designation. ]when someone questions your grammar (correctly, I might add) you're of- fended and you're pointing to the fact that it's well received on other venues or was it really met with indifference because ... no one cares? Actually I'm thanking Ira for finally saying "Hey moron, you have some errors in this document!" I didn't mean to sound offended, and I'm glad someone took the oppertunity to point it out. Lord knows it appeared that I needed it back in 99 or whenever I wrote the original. Maybe next year I'll just scrap the entire thing and start over with a different way of organizing it. KC Nov 26 2006 01:50 PM Ok, got ya. No teflon ... just indifference. Either way, or both, I'm prolly right. I incorrectly assumed you were offended if what you say is the case. I thought you were being sarcastic. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 03:32 PM ="KC"] What's the fascination with the Mets HOF anyways? There's a list of guys who are pretty much deserving and they get a bust in The Diamondclub lobby that in no way really resembles them (cheapass Mets can get good artists?), and maybe there's one or two who you could make a case for aren't in or are that maybe don't belong. Again, who cares? Heh! I don't know. I was facinated by the fact that the Reds Listserv off of Miami of Ohio's listserver has a pretty well received one and at the time I had a website thing up so I figured "why not?" They actually do have a screening process first, weeding out the Bernie Carbos and Kurt Stillwells of the world, but for whatever reason I didn't think A) the Mets had enough of a history that would neccsitate such a process, only 40 plus years and There wouldn't be as much support anyway a second time around after the first process. Maybe I'll re-think the whole thing next year and do it that way, and come up with a different year range as well as I've always seen the 5 years as the time frame for any team oriented thing, maybe its just me as it's half the time of the guidlines on the actual baseball HOF ballot and generally most players of note tend to stay 5 years with a club. iramets Nov 26 2006 04:25 PM SteveJRogers wrote: I was facinated by the fact that the Reds Listserv off of Miami of Ohio's listserver has a pretty well received one and at the time I had a website thing up so I figured "why not?. Ya know, I bet Michael Richards thought firing off a few N-bombs during his act last week was a good move at the time. I mean, "Why not?" You've got flaws upon flaws upon flaws here, Steve, the most basic of which is "Who needs a MET HOF voted on by anonymous Internet ninnies completely unaccountable for their stupid voting?" Then you've incorporated arbitrary nonsense, like requiring five years. You mean if Piazza came here in mid-1998, won five straight MVPs with the Mets while they won 5 straight championships, but had to retire after 4 1/2 glorious seasons, he should be ineligible? How about if a bunch of idiots decided that they wanted to see Joe McEwing elected to the Mets HOF, and voted all day, every day, and got their friends to create usernames to do the same? So you'd have a HOF with McEwing but without Piazza, all because you created a colossally dumb set of rules for your HOF, which no one needs anyway. My advice? Do it right, or don't do it at all. And, with no unkindness intended, based on what you've shown here, I don't know if you're capable of doing it right. Rockin' Doc Nov 26 2006 04:45 PM SJR - "BTW Ira, 4th time I've done this and NO ONE bothered to pick up on the grammar errors." That's because we're self righteous, know it all, elitist pricks and the people on the other boards aren't. Actually, I didn't interpret Steve's response to iramets' critique of his grammar to be sarcastic. I took it to be more in the vain of, "I screwed up again". SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 05:01 PM iramets wrote: You've got flaws upon flaws upon flaws here, Steve, the most basic of which is "Who needs a MET HOF voted on by anonymous Internet ninnies completely unaccountable for their stupid voting?" Then you've incorporated arbitrary nonsense, like requiring five years. You mean if Piazza came here in mid-1998, won five straight MVPs with the Mets while they won 5 straight championships, but had to retire after 4 1/2 glorious seasons, he should be ineligible? Rewording it to "Parts of Five Seasons" would help in that particular regard. A better argument would be that the 5 seasons rule makes the Robin Venturas and John Oleruds of the world ineligible despite great production and moments (Grand Slam Single) while Bruce Boisclair, Ron Gardenhire and Rey Ordonez are on the ballot based on being with the team for parts of 5 seasons ]How about if a bunch of idiots decided that they wanted to see Joe McEwing elected to the Mets HOF, and voted all day, every day, and got their friends to create usernames to do the same? So you'd have a HOF with McEwing but without Piazza, all because you created a colossally dumb set of rules for your HOF, which no one needs anyway. Which is why I said "email" me the votes and it worked fine in the past. Tom Seaver, Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez, Mookie Wilson, Casey Stengel, Dave Johnson, Bob Murphy and Ralph Kiner all got in the first year I did this (on the Met Listserv at AOL and the original MOFO in 1999) Hernandez was named on all 30 emails sent to me that winter. Seaver on all but 1, Carter, Wilson and Koosman were the others with 20 or more votes. No real crazy things in that balloting either, Cleon, McGraw, Staub, Grote, Agee, Buddy, Dykstra, Ryan, Kranepool, Sid, Darling, Maz, McDowell, Backman, Ojeda were the rest of the order with Brooks, Garrett, 'Dac, Kingman, Lynch, Matlack, Magadan, McReynolds, Teufel, Stearns, Swug and Millan receiving 1 vote each. I think people sending me emails ala the Baseball Writers prevents something like Billy Wynne climbing the ranks of the UMDB's Top Popular Met List. Plus I would be able to see irregularities that go beyond someone giving a vote to their favorite player because they don't think he'd get enough votes anyway (ala the wise guys at the BBWAA who give a vote to a person on the HOF ballot because he was a nice guy or he knew the writer in college or something, or maybe they feel any award winner deserves a vote or whatever) So now you are saying something is flawed in the BBWAA process? I see your point with the Rick Ferrell induction by the Vets (Ferrell was in poor health and a friend asked everyone to vote for him thinking no onelse would and lo and behold Ferrell got in) ]Do it right Okay, give me some suggestions then for a better process? iramets Nov 26 2006 05:43 PM Well, I'd start with making someone other than you the vote-counter. That's not a dig at your ability, btw. You need accountability in any voting process, and "Trust me, I'll be fair" isn't going to cut it. Then I'd have "internet voting" being only one constituency among many, all of which would need to agree on a candidate to be put on the ballot. This may seem to complicate things, which it does at first, but it also allows you to eliminate a lot of other stupid rules (like "x years in a met uniform," which has more problems than I've hinted at here.) Possible "other" constituencies might be "Met Bloggers," who although they're anonymous need to maintain ther reputations as authorities. Maybe I'd have another group of "Mets historians," like the guys here who run "Mets By the Numbers" and "the UMDB" and like that. If all six or seven of these constituencies agree on a group of candidates, then they're Mets HOFers whatever length of service they have, and there's no point in flooding the internet voting with absurd crap because it's only going to influence that one group, so the qualilty of internet voting will improve as well. That's just for starters. SteveJRogers Nov 26 2006 05:54 PM Would you like to help then? Figuring now I should just hit the reset button on this project. Rockin' Doc Nov 26 2006 06:07 PM All hail the sacred Seaver post. Rockin' Doc Nov 26 2006 06:12 PM iramets, I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but both UMDB and MBTN sites are created and run by members of the CPF. The UMDB is the work of Yancey Street Gang while Mets by the Numbers is done by Johhny Dickshot. ScarletKnight41 Nov 26 2006 06:22 PM Elster88 Nov 27 2006 07:51 PM HAIL

[HahnSolo]

It also applies to Dykstra and McDowell. Neither of them played five full seasons as a Met. Same goes for Aguilera.

[stevejrogers]

BTW Ira, 4th time I've done this and NO ONE bothered to pick up on the grammar errors. Thanks

Geez, I should think about some copy editing courses at Iona...

Later

[Guest KC]

You'd think after four times it wouldn't give a person a headache to read it.
I mean really, how many people got through this whole post without wanting
to bang their heads on the keyboard? I'm not picking on you, but you're big
on this, "I'm an internet legend" and you're a "Quiet Leader" on mofo, and
when someone questions your grammar (correctly, I might add) you're of-
fended and you're pointing to the fact that it's well received on other venues
or was it really met with indifference because ... no one cares?

What's the fascination with the Mets HOF anyways? There's a list of guys
who are pretty much deserving and they get a bust in The Diamondclub lobby
that in no way really resembles them (cheapass Mets can get good artists?),
and maybe there's one or two who you could make a case for aren't in
or are that maybe don't belong. Again, who cares?

Note: The preceding post may contain errors in grammar, spelling, and reason.
Any resemblance to a post that is clear, well thought out, or even warranted
is pure coincidence.

[stevejrogers]

"Quiet Leader" is the default level designation for someone with whatever number of posts (I think it starts in the 700 range) I have over there, not a custom designation.

]when someone questions your grammar (correctly, I might add) you're of- fended and you're pointing to the fact that it's well received on other venues or was it really met with indifference because ... no one cares?

Actually I'm thanking Ira for finally saying "Hey moron, you have some errors in this document!" I didn't mean to sound offended, and I'm glad someone took the oppertunity to point it out. Lord knows it appeared that I needed it back in 99 or whenever I wrote the original. Maybe next year I'll just scrap the entire thing and start over with a different way of organizing it.

[Guest KC]

Ok, got ya. No teflon ... just indifference. Either way, or both, I'm prolly right.

I incorrectly assumed you were offended if what you say is the case. I thought
you were being sarcastic.

[stevejrogers]

="KC"] What's the fascination with the Mets HOF anyways? There's a list of guys who are pretty much deserving and they get a bust in The Diamondclub lobby that in no way really resembles them (cheapass Mets can get good artists?), and maybe there's one or two who you could make a case for aren't in or are that maybe don't belong. Again, who cares?

Heh! I don't know. I was facinated by the fact that the Reds Listserv off of Miami of Ohio's listserver has a pretty well received one and at the time I had a website thing up so I figured "why not?"

They actually do have a screening process first, weeding out the Bernie Carbos and Kurt Stillwells of the world, but for whatever reason I didn't think A) the Mets had enough of a history that would neccsitate such a process, only 40 plus years and There wouldn't be as much support anyway a second time around after the first process.

Maybe I'll re-think the whole thing next year and do it that way, and come up with a different year range as well as I've always seen the 5 years as the time frame for any team oriented thing, maybe its just me as it's half the time of the guidlines on the actual baseball HOF ballot and generally most players of note tend to stay 5 years with a club.

[Guest iramets]

SteveJRogers wrote: I was facinated by the fact that the Reds Listserv off of Miami of Ohio's listserver has a pretty well received one and at the time I had a website thing up so I figured "why not?.

Ya know, I bet Michael Richards thought firing off a few N-bombs during his act last week was a good move at the time. I mean, "Why not?"

You've got flaws upon flaws upon flaws here, Steve, the most basic of which is "Who needs a MET HOF voted on by anonymous Internet ninnies completely unaccountable for their stupid voting?" Then you've incorporated arbitrary nonsense, like requiring five years. You mean if Piazza came here in mid-1998, won five straight MVPs with the Mets while they won 5 straight championships, but had to retire after 4 1/2 glorious seasons, he should be ineligible? How about if a bunch of idiots decided that they wanted to see Joe McEwing elected to the Mets HOF, and voted all day, every day, and got their friends to create usernames to do the same? So you'd have a HOF with McEwing but without Piazza, all because you created a colossally dumb set of rules for your HOF, which no one needs anyway.

My advice? Do it right, or don't do it at all. And, with no unkindness intended, based on what you've shown here, I don't know if you're capable of doing it right.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

SJR - "BTW Ira, 4th time I've done this and NO ONE bothered to pick up on the grammar errors."

That's because we're self righteous, know it all, elitist pricks and the people on the other boards aren't.

Actually, I didn't interpret Steve's response to iramets' critique of his grammar to be sarcastic. I took it to be more in the vain of, "I screwed up again".

[stevejrogers]

iramets wrote: You've got flaws upon flaws upon flaws here, Steve, the most basic of which is "Who needs a MET HOF voted on by anonymous Internet ninnies completely unaccountable for their stupid voting?" Then you've incorporated arbitrary nonsense, like requiring five years. You mean if Piazza came here in mid-1998, won five straight MVPs with the Mets while they won 5 straight championships, but had to retire after 4 1/2 glorious seasons, he should be ineligible?

Rewording it to "Parts of Five Seasons" would help in that particular regard.

A better argument would be that the 5 seasons rule makes the Robin Venturas and John Oleruds of the world ineligible despite great production and moments (Grand Slam Single) while Bruce Boisclair, Ron Gardenhire and Rey Ordonez are on the ballot based on being with the team for parts of 5 seasons

]How about if a bunch of idiots decided that they wanted to see Joe McEwing elected to the Mets HOF, and voted all day, every day, and got their friends to create usernames to do the same? So you'd have a HOF with McEwing but without Piazza, all because you created a colossally dumb set of rules for your HOF, which no one needs anyway.

Which is why I said "email" me the votes and it worked fine in the past. Tom Seaver, Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez, Mookie Wilson, Casey Stengel, Dave Johnson, Bob Murphy and Ralph Kiner all got in the first year I did this (on the Met Listserv at AOL and the original MOFO in 1999) Hernandez was named on all 30 emails sent to me that winter. Seaver on all but 1, Carter, Wilson and Koosman were the others with 20 or more votes.

No real crazy things in that balloting either, Cleon, McGraw, Staub, Grote, Agee, Buddy, Dykstra, Ryan, Kranepool, Sid, Darling, Maz, McDowell, Backman, Ojeda were the rest of the order with Brooks, Garrett, 'Dac, Kingman, Lynch, Matlack, Magadan, McReynolds, Teufel, Stearns, Swug and Millan receiving 1 vote each.

I think people sending me emails ala the Baseball Writers prevents something like Billy Wynne climbing the ranks of the UMDB's Top Popular Met List. Plus I would be able to see irregularities that go beyond someone giving a vote to their favorite player because they don't think he'd get enough votes anyway (ala the wise guys at the BBWAA who give a vote to a person on the HOF ballot because he was a nice guy or he knew the writer in college or something, or maybe they feel any award winner deserves a vote or whatever)

So now you are saying something is flawed in the BBWAA process? I see your point with the Rick Ferrell induction by the Vets (Ferrell was in poor health and a friend asked everyone to vote for him thinking no onelse would and lo and behold Ferrell got in)

]Do it right

Okay, give me some suggestions then for a better process?

[Guest iramets]

Well, I'd start with making someone other than you the vote-counter.

That's not a dig at your ability, btw. You need accountability in any voting process, and "Trust me, I'll be fair" isn't going to cut it.

Then I'd have "internet voting" being only one constituency among many, all of which would need to agree on a candidate to be put on the ballot. This may seem to complicate things, which it does at first, but it also allows you to eliminate a lot of other stupid rules (like "x years in a met uniform," which has more problems than I've hinted at here.) Possible "other" constituencies might be "Met Bloggers," who although they're anonymous need to maintain ther reputations as authorities. Maybe I'd have another group of "Mets historians," like the guys here who run "Mets By the Numbers" and "the UMDB" and like that. If all six or seven of these constituencies agree on a group of candidates, then they're Mets HOFers whatever length of service they have, and there's no point in flooding the internet voting with absurd crap because it's only going to influence that one group, so the qualilty of internet voting will improve as well.

That's just for starters.

[stevejrogers]

Would you like to help then?

Figuring now I should just hit the reset button on this project.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

All hail the sacred Seaver post.

[Guest Rockin' Doc]

iramets, I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not, but both UMDB and MBTN sites are created and run by members of the CPF. The UMDB is the work of Yancey Street Gang while Mets by the Numbers is done by Johhny Dickshot.

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

[Elster88]

HAIL