mets get delgado (apparently)

[Valadius]

Great short-term deal. We might make the playoffs a few times.

However:

This might be bad long-term. Jake-Monster could become the next Jeff Bagwell, and Petit is as sure-fire a prospect as they come, and he'll likely be a #2 starter. So I'm iffy on this deal.

[metirish]

Val you're really upset because you created "Jake-Monster" aren't you?....

[Elster88]

Valadius wrote: Jake-Monster could become the next Jeff Bagwell, and Petit is as sure-fire a prospect as they come, and he'll likely be a #2 starter.

*sigh*

Where to begin?
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[Valadius]

That's one reason, yes. But I hate trading young talent at any time.

[Benjamin Grimm]

I think Jacobs is a nice player, but it's unlikely he's going to become a superstar or even an All-Star, unless the Marlins get so bad that he's their token player.

And no pitching prospect is a sure thing. You're too young to remember Tim Leary, but you've probably heard of Paul Wilson and Bill Pulsipher.

[soupcan]

Oh yeah - the Post also said that Omar is talking to the D'Bags about Benson for Javier Vasquez.

[Valadius]

I remember Wilson and Pulsipher. However, I am too young to remember the full extent of the hype surrounding them. I only caught the tail end, when people were already doubting them.

[Guest sharpie]

Take Petit and triple it, that was the hype surrounding Wilson and Pulsipher.

[Guest HappyRecap]

He said that Delgado has the option to demand a trade after next year. So if he is a one-year deal, let's see how he does.

Will be interesting to see how he spins his new love of NY now that he is playing here.

[Benjamin Grimm]

And if he demands a trade, he risks forfeiting his big guaranteed contract if he doesn't get it.

I don't think his right to demand a trade is any kind of factor at all. As long as nobody speaks Spanish to him, he should be happy in New York.

[Elster88]

You're killing me HappyRecap. I also fail to recall him saying something like "I don't like New York." The thrust of his argument seemed to be that he thought Florida had a better chance to win. Leiter pissing in his ear probably didn't help.

Why the hate for Delgado? So far everything you've said seems to be more grounded in rumor and speculation than anything else
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[Benjamin Grimm]

I think he should call himself Grumpy Recap.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Take Petit and triple it, and that was the hype surrounding Pulsipher alone. Maybe. Triple it again for the three guys at once.

]IJake-Monster could become the next Jeff Bagwell, and Petit is as sure-fire a prospect as they come, and he'll likely be a #2 starter.

I think that second part is somewhat inherently contradictory. As "sure-fire" as you say he is you're still projecting him for probably #2 status, which is hardly a consensus projection.

I hate trading any young talent also. Even more than you probably.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

He's always happy.

[Valadius]

Regardless, with Delgado on board, it focuses our attention on the catcher and second base positions, and to a lesser extent right field.

[metirish]

Diaz is our right fielder,Hernandez will be the catcher, Matsui at second...

Reyes
Beltran
Wright
Delgado
Floyd
Diaz
Hernandez
Matsui
Pitcher

[Benjamin Grimm]

The Mets could have three Hernandezes next year, if they sign Ramon and retain Roberto and promote Anderson.

That'll really mess up my Schaefer spreadsheet.

[Valadius]

Watch Willie continue to bat Beltran third. That and/or Wright fifth.

[metirish]

Yes Yancy so true, I screwed up that a few times last season with two Hernandezes in the squad...probably drives you nuts..still not a reason to not make this trade ..

[Guest HappyRecap]

Elster,

Here is my position...I don't have anything against Delgado but I hate getting players like him that are 5 minutes past their prime since the Mets have a huge history of getting guys like that. And if he has an okay year, we then have to watch his numbers decline on the back side of his contract where he looks more and more overpaid.

There hasn't been one signing or trade of a stud player in his prime that has panned out since Piazza. And that includes Beltran based on his off year last year so based on this history getting excited about Delgado in November is hard to do.

I also understand that this is NY and the Mets can't rebuild with youth all over the field. They also are starting their own network and you need the fans to see name players out there on the field, hence signing top-flight talent even if in two years it is a bad deal.

And the other part of my no-Delgado stance is that I liked Jacobs from what I saw. Others point out that he was a failed catcher without a position but guys Torre, Biggio and Zeile all had very good careers after they found another position. And Jacobs at 1B wasn't like the Piazza debacle of two years ago.

So that is where I stand...if he comes in and gets the job done and isn't some malcontent, fine, but I would have preferred to have given Jacobs a shot.

HAPPY RECAP

[Guest Spacemans Bong]

Matsui will not be 2B. The Mets can't leave a gaping hole there.

[Frayed Knot]

"Jake-Monster could become the next Jeff Bagwell"

Very, very, VERY unlikely.
And did I mention that it's very unlikely?



"and Petit is as sure-fire a prospect as they come"

No he isn't. I'm betting that there'll be at least a dozen or more pitchers rated more highly on the lists that'll come out this winter.



One of the problems I believe fans (and others) have with deciding to deal or keep prospects is that they fail to distinguish amongst prospects. M&MD were knocking Milledge yesterday, for instance, by citing past minor leaguers who haven't made it without any sense of perspective about him in particular. It's as if every player with the letters 'P-R-O-S-P-E-C-T' stamped on his forehead is created equal and which ones to bet on or not is something that's a total crapshoot (shirley something they wouldn't say about college football draftees btw).

Both Petit & Jacobs could turn out to be good players, but the above claims are unlike you'll see anyone with knowledge of their careers to date make. Not even close.

[Guest heep]

We traded quality, young talent for a 34 year old slugger you did not want to play for us.

Bottom line.

The only real positive is that it prevents us from trading Milledge.

I hate that they traded Jacobs. Watch him win rookie of the year next year, and Petit go on to be a great ML pitcher.

I am very ambivilent to this trade. Win - now. Never liked tha idea.

Add Zambrano to Delgado as they guys I do not like, and Kazmir, Jacobs, and Petit as the ones that foolishly got away.

Jeffy Wilpon at it again.

[Guest Rotblatt]

Not bad. We probably did overpay--I think Petit was too much--but all in all, I'm happy with this.

[Guest heep]

typo

WE TRADED QUALITY YOUNG TALENT FOR A PLAYER WHO DID NOT WANT TO PLAY FOR US.

bottom line.

The mets: always trying to assemble and not build.

f delgado. Jacobs was our guy.

[Frayed Knot]

"Jeffy Wilpon at it again."

And Jeff had what to do with this deal exactly?
- Is there a particular "type" of deal that has a JW stamp on it, or do we have specific info here?
- Or are we just taking a shot at the convienient target because we don't like it?

[Elster88]

Happy,

I misjudged your argument. It makes a lot more sense when you put it the way you did just now. You and heep seem to represent the ideology that the younger players will turn out better then the older proven hitters (though Beltran is not old enough to be of use in your argument, IMO) that they are traded for. I'm of the belief that Delgado is not over the hill and that Jacobs is not guaranteed to even be half as good as Delgado will be for the next three years (more in line with the TITTS ideology, coined by Norrin [i think]). Only time will tell.

IMO, a lot of Met fans have to get over the failures of Robbie Alomar and Mo Vaughn (going on three years ago), and realize that not every batter brought into Shea will fail to hit at their career norms.
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[Guest Edgy DC]

]I hate that they traded Jacobs. Watch him win rookie of the year next year, and Petit go on to be a great ML pitcher.

This thread --- or its clone --- just made the prediction archives.

]I am very ambivilent to this trade. Win - now. Never liked tha idea.

You sound far beyound ambivalent.

[Benjamin Grimm]

"Jeffy Wilpon at it again?"

Too funny. How is it that Jeff Wilpon made this deal?

[Elster88]

]M&MD were knocking Milledge yesterday

Is MD still calling him Lance Milledge? I think M gave up on correcting him every time.
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AN ALMIGHTY 119) KEVIN ELSTER POST