Pitch Framing in the Robtic-Ump Age

[kcmets]

Will artificial intelligence be advanced enough when the time comes

to know if a pitch doesn't enter the strike zone but a catcher magically

moves the ball to to a seemingly better spot it must be a strike?

[Edgy MD]

That's the idea, anyhow. Mark the ball's location as it crosses the imaginary plane extending upward from the front of the plate.

[Ceetar]

I imagine it won't call those strikes and many catchers will lose a lot of their worth.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Will artificial intelligence be advanced enough when the time comes to know if a pitch doesn't enter the strike zone but a catcher magically moves the ball to to a seemingly better spot it must be a strike?

Why wouldnt it? And why "when the time comes"? I'm certain that this was technologically achieved years ago, and that therefore, the technology is already advanced enough to call a dead-accurate ball or strike.



Also, you meant "must not be a strike, right?

[kcmets]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=23739 time=1570197322 user_id=68]Why wouldnt it?

[batmagadanleadoff]

=kcmets post_id=23744 time=1570198538 user_id=53]
=batmagadanleadoff post_id=23739 time=1570197322 user_id=68]Why wouldnt it?

[Ceetar]

Why wouldnt it? And why "when the time comes"? I'm certain that this was technologically achieved years ago, and that therefore, the technology is already advanced enough to call a dead-accurate ball or strike.

I've heard some say that maybe it's not quite there yet (from non-MLB people, so not just pro-game/umpire stuff) but I'm not sure if they're right or not. There's perhaps some fuzziness around it that would need to be firmed up if we went automated, player height, player's knee height, etc. HARD strikezone edges.



And it they might need to come in or up or down a few cm or something. It's possible the umps are calling balls on pitches that are barely ticking the corner of the back of the zone that are technically strikes and that those pitches might be virtually unhittable (operating under the assumption that a ball "in" the zone is a hittable one and if you don't you're penalized)



There's also hard proof that the strike zone is smaller on 0-2 and larger on 3-0. This almost definitely wouldn't be the case with a camera, but all of the players have this stuff ingrained into muscle memory and the like. it'll be a huge adjustment that first year, and likely messy.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Why wouldnt it? And why "when the time comes"? I'm certain that this was technologically achieved years ago, and that therefore, the technology is already advanced enough to call a dead-accurate ball or strike. I've heard some say that maybe it's not quite there yet (from non-MLB people, so not just pro-game/umpire stuff) but I'm not sure if they're right or not. There's perhaps some fuzziness around it that would need to be firmed up if we went automated, player height, player's knee height, etc. HARD strikezone edges. And it they might need to come in or up or down a few cm or something. It's possible the umps are calling balls on pitches that are barely ticking the corner of the back of the zone that are technically strikes and that those pitches might be virtually unhittable (operating under the assumption that a ball "in" the zone is a hittable one and if you don't you're penalized) There's also hard proof that the strike zone is smaller on 0-2 and larger on 3-0. This almost definitely wouldn't be the case with a camera, but all of the players have this stuff ingrained into muscle memory and the like. it'll be a huge adjustment that first year, and likely messy.

Sure. My understanding is that the main glitches or holdups are not with the technology itself, but with the huge social implications that will come by replacing human umps with robotic balls and strikes callers. And will home plate umps be replaced entirely, or will they remain to call safe/out plays at home, and to decide whether a batter checked his swing or not, or whether he fouled tipped the ball as opposed to completely whiffing on it? And come to think of it, as I'm writing this post, I doubt that the home ump will be replaced, at least in my lifetime. MLB will simply install a robot ball/strike caller when the time comes.

[Edgy MD]

Somebody's got to be there to tell everybody what the compooter said.



I'm more concerned with the vagueries, of what to call when the ball crosses the strike zone in part.



Some umps believe the whole ball should be in the zone, others want to see the meridian of the ball pass through the zone, and still others will give you a strike if a single stitch passes over the black. As far as I understand the rule book, that third guy is most correct, but he's probably not representative of the mainstream.

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: Some umps believe the whole ball should be in the zone, others want to see the meridian of the ball pass through the zone, and still others will give you a strike if a single stitch passes over the black. As far as I understand the rule book, that third guy is most correct, but he's probably not representative of the mainstream.

That's the easy part. Just enforce the rule. And if it's a robo-ump, then it's even easier. Just program the robo ump to call a strike if so much as a sliver of a hair of the ball crosses the strike zone.

[batmagadanleadoff]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=23746 time=1570198911 user_id=68]




And what does pitch framing have anything to do with AI or robo-umping in the first place? The robo ump follows the ball all the way through an area that's been calibrated to be the strike zone. The robo ump doesn't give a shit about the catcher's movements.

[kcmets]

http://www.kcmets.com/CPF/pitchfram.png>

[batmagadanleadoff]

[FIMG=555]https://www.previewsworld.com/SiteImage/CatalogImage/STK630149?type=1[/FIMG]



Sigh.

[kcmets]

http://www.kcmets.com/CPF/mentalo.jpg>

[Frayed Knot]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=23749 time=1570199327 user_id=68] And will home plate umps be replaced entirely, or will they remain to call safe/out plays at home, and to decide whether a batter checked his swing or not, or whether he fouled tipped the ball as opposed to completely whiffing on it? And come to think of it, as I'm writing this post, I doubt that the home ump will be replaced, at least in my lifetime. MLB will simply install a robot ball/strike caller when the time comes.

[Centerfield]

Frayed Knot wrote: =batmagadanleadoff post_id=23749 time=1570199327 user_id=68] And will home plate umps be replaced entirely, or will they remain to call safe/out plays at home, and to decide whether a batter checked his swing or not, or whether he fouled tipped the ball as opposed to completely whiffing on it? And come to think of it, as I'm writing this post, I doubt that the home ump will be replaced, at least in my lifetime. MLB will simply install a robot ball/strike caller when the time comes.

The HP ump isn't going anywhere. He still needs to be responsible for four tips, caught/not-caught, pop-ups, fair/foul up until the bases, safe/out at the plate and maybe at other bases when an outfield hit requires a rotation, as well as half-swings which they might even take back more control of those on account of not having to watch the placement of the ball. And he's still going to be the guy to indicate the B/S calls based on what robo-ump (and R-U administrator) tells him through an earpiece plus maybe a light indicator on the scoreboard based on a version I saw.

[Edgy MD]

If the robot can't get that call scientifically correct instead of making it subjectively, I can't see what the point of the robot takeover would be.



Maybe we can get some Mexican League umps:



[YOUTUBE]SXdTvWWgwSM[/YOUTUBE]

[batmagadanleadoff]

Hey dudes, I said all that about how a robo ump isn't gonna replace a human ump. This was about pitch framing and the concern that a pitch framer can fool the robo ump the same way he fools a human ump. I don't see how so long as the robo ump works properly. The robo ump's methodology for determining balls and strikes is completely different from that of a human ump. For starters, and finishers, the robo ump's view won't be obstructed. Jeez, we have cameras that can see in super high definition from like 10 football fields away.

[Guest 41Forever]

Best pitch framing ever.

Get yourself a catcher like this one. https://t.co/q14Z1KkIi2">pic.twitter.com/q14Z1KkIi2

—; Jeff Eisenband (@JeffEisenband) https://twitter.com/JeffEisenband/status/1141198897211150336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%22%3EJuneJune">https://twitter.com/JeffEisenband/status/1141198897211150336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 19, 2019

[kcmets]

=batmagadanleadoff post_id=23790 time=1570221428 user_id=68]This was about pitch framing and the concern that a pitch framer can fool the robo ump the same way he fools a human ump. I don't see how so long as the robo ump works properly.

[Frayed Knot]

=Centerfield post_id=23777 time=1570218138 user_id=65]
I imagine he'd be there to overrule glitches. Balls that bounce and then cross over the plate. Called ball four that's right down the middle.