Vic Sage

"iss it safe?"

one of the great films of the last 30 years. an epic with heart, and about something other than itself. with great performances.

Edgy MD wrote: How about films where the environmental reality is pretty much stable, but the protagonist him- or herself turns out not to be who they think they are? Examples include... spoilers... Angel Heart The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus Maybe Blade Runner if you believe one or two of the eleven cuts circulating of this film are meant to imply in the end that Decker is a replicant. Maybe Total Recall, depending on your read of the ending, but I guess it qualifies one way or the other. oh absolutely. i even mentioned TOTAL RECALL (and all the works of PKDick) in my initial post. though i absolutely refuse to accept the "deckard is a replicant" theory that Ridley seems to be putting forth in his final cut. but ANGEL HEART? totally. good call. Having seen DR. PARNASSUS 3 times, i still don't know what its about, so i'm not sure it qualifies.

JACOB'S LADDER, absolutely. TRON? Maybe from the perspective of the lifeforms in the computer, but not from the protagonist's POV. For him, its like GROUNDHOG DAY... stuck in a different reality, but aware of it and trying to find a way out. He is not "wrong" about his reality; it simply changed and he understands that. So the core conflict i'm talking about (being wrong about the world) isn't there. PAN'S LABRYNTH? I don't remember it well enough to know if it fits within the paradigm.

yeah, SHUTTER ISLAND is exactly the kind of thing i'm thinking of. MEMENTO is an interesting slant on this theme. The reality doesn't change, and he knows he doesn't know what it really is, but he just keeps becoming more and more aware of the truth. A great movie. SOLARIS (the Russian version) put me to sleep, so i'll have to take your word that it fits. GROUNDHOG DAY, while a great movie, isn't exactly what i'm talking about. the key question to ask is: "what does the protagonist think his reality is, and does the movie reveal him to be wrong?" In GD, Murray understands early on that his reality has changed and then spends the movie trying various ways to deal with that fact, to get back to his own "time" (as it were), to bang Andie McDowell (a worthy ambition) and then simply to live the best he can in his altered reality. This zen-like approach finally breaks the curse and he's restored. But the protagonist is never really wrong, nor does he have any doubts, about the fact that his reality has changed or what it has become, even if he has trouble accepting it at first. As for DISCREET CHARM, most European art films, and certainly most of Bunuel's, have a surreal attitude toward reality and so could technically fall within my definition. But they are primarily metaphorical and symbolic, with no attempt to construct a reality that reflects the world, so how can the protagonist be wrong about his reality when no reality is posited? So i'm arbitrarily excluding them. With SLIDING DOORS, i know what the story is about, offering 2 versions of reality based on changing the results of a single decision, but unless the Paltrow character thinks she's in one reality while she's in the other, it doesn't fit either. The essence of the conflict i'm trying to identify in films is that between the protagonist and what they understand to be their world. What happens when the world isn't what you thought it was? Films that deal with that question are the ones i'm looking for.

don't know the book; didn't much care for the movie.

The Dustin Hoffman film festival (1967-1982) Two months of Hoffman double features for your viewing pleasure, covering the most fertile period of his career as a leading man: Family man: The Graduate (1967) Kramer vs. Kramer(1979) - GRADUATE was a generational touchstone, launching Hoffman into superstardom on his first feature. It captured the spirit of upwardly mobile disaffected youth, graduating college and confronting the older generation's expectations. Similarly, KRAMER was of its time, too, as it pictured the evolution of the middle aged male learning to embrace his nurturing paternal side. Like most films "of their time", they've both dated badly, though GRADUATE has all that Simon & Garfunkel music. Viva Italia: Madigan's Millions (1968) Alfredo, Alfredo (1972) - two lame Italian comedies; Hoffman actually did MADIGAN two years earlier than GRADUATE, but it was released after to capitalize on his sudden stardom. Love & the New Wave: John & Mary (1969) Who Is Harry Kellerman and Why Is He Saying Those Terrible Things About Me? (1971) - These 2 are nearly unwatchable now; pretentious contemplations on love, very much influenced by the filmaking of the nouvelle vague 2 in NYC by Schlesinger: Midnight Cowboy (1969) Marathon Man (1976) - John Schlesinger directed Hoffman to two of his best performances in two of his best films, COWBOY a moving depiction of loneliness in a decaying NYC, and MARATHON a thriller that runs through its streets. contemplations of violence: Little Big Man (1970) Straw Dogs (1971) - BIG MAN, the comic revisionist western by Arthur Penn, and DOGS, Peckinpah's thriller both offer still fascinating commentaries on the nature of violence as witnessed or indulged in by little men. DOGS is perhaps my favorite film of Hoffman's career. The Criminal Mind: Papillon (1973) Straight Time (1978) - Hoffman plays thieves and cons of different types. In PAPILLON he offers brilliant support to Steve McQueen, in TIME he takes the burden upon himself. In both he comes to terms with his tragic destiny. He knows why the caged bird dies. The Artist: Lenny (1974) Tootsie (1982) - 2 academy-award nominated performances in which he plays artists who torture themselves to express truth. In TOOTSIE, he does it comically in a dress, in LENNY he does so tragically, in black & white. Journalists: All the President's Men (1976) Agatha (1979) - Hoffman always conveyed a credibility, so playing a journalist capitalized on that innate quality. PRESIDENT'S MEN takes a true story and makes it play like a mystery thriller. AGATHA wastes Vanessa Redgrave and Hoffman in a fictional account of actual events.

the story is like THE DONNER PARTY but without the cannibalism, right?

THE WHOLE NINE YARDS is particularly good in that respect.

actually, i did see IDENTITY, now that i recall. It was pretty good, and its exactly the kind of movie i'm talking about. although Amanda Peet didn't show her boobies, and she should have. They're very nice.

. How 'bout that one where Picard lives a whole lifetime as a flute player in the space of a few seconds? i love that episode. But yes, that's why i didn't want to get into TV, because SO many individual episodes of of many fantasy/sf/horror series use it as a concept for 1 or more episodes, that we'd just be talking about tv shows. And i want to hear about movies. as for TIME BANDITS, the "it was all just a dream" thing only happens near the end (if i recall correctly) and then gets immediately reversed when Kevin's parents get blown up by a chunk of evil in the oven. The fact is Kevin never doubted the reality of his adventure for 99% of it, and then the ending proves he was right, so i don't think it counts. BACK TO THE FUTURE? maybe i'm misremembering but isn't MJFox completely aware that he's time travelling? oh, and speaking of TWILIGHT ZONE (alot of their plots did this), there was AN OCCURENCE AT OWL CREEK BRIDGE, which was shown as part of the series but was actually produced independently as a short film. it also reminds me of CARNIVAL OF SOULS, early 60s B&W horror movie about a woman in an accident who doesn't realize she's dead. i don't know anything about IDENTITY. What's the deal there?

i would think that time travel only counts if the protagonist is unaware that they've time travelled, so the world isn't what its supposed to be from their perspective. like maybe PLANET OF THE APES, for instance. If a guy goes back or forward in time on purpose, then his reality is exactly what he intends it to be. Same with Holodeck episodes. Though i wasn't talking about TV, per se (despite title of the thread), there's a difference between, say, TIME TUNNEL and LOST.

So i'm up late, watching TV, and DARK CITY comes on. I love DARK CITY. It's the Alex (THE CROW) Proyas SF movie with Rufus Sewell and Jennifer Connelly where reality is not what it appears, and Sewell gradually figures it out. and it got me to thinking about these "alternate reality" type films, where reality is either: * a dream or nightmare (organic or implanted); * a hallucination (mentally or pharmacologically induced); * a virtual reality (in a computer, video game, cyberspace); * a movie/play/tv show/fiction of some kind; or * a creation of aliens; and its the protagonist's journey to figure out what is real (or to free others from a false reality) that drives the plot. Much of the work of Phillip K. Dick was based on a protagonist's misunderstanding of his own reality. No surprise then that some of the better films of this type are based on his work, like TOTAL RECALL. other recent films that come to mind: - INCEPTION - MATRIX - TRUMAN SHOW - STRANGER THAN FICTION - ETERNAL SUNSHINE OF THE SPOTLESS MIND - SUCKER PUNCH - EXISTENZ - 12 MONKEYS - NIGHTMARE ON ELM ST. and some older ones include: - SECONDS - WIZARD OF OZ - A MATTER OF LIFE & DEATH (STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN) The films of David Cronenberg and those of Charlie Kaufman are almost entirely about the subject. what others?

i love that harmonica theme, and Harry Nilsson has one of the best voices, like, ever.

The lasting impression that this time capsule of a soundtrack leaves is the abundance of vocal energy and inventive harmonizing that proliferated in the late sixties, and how styles were changing from cool lounge and orchestral scoring to topical pop music placement to reflect the moment. The same is true of the film itself. It's a time capsule of the late `60s, and the decaying and decadent culture of the time. Actually rated X upon its initial release, the movie is so tame today it would probably get a PG13. And the psychedelic Warholian party scene seems positively silly now, but was very much cutting edge in its day. But to criticize it for its lack of plot is to kind of miss the point. British director John Schlesinger was working in a European mode that is not plot-driven, focusing instead on setting, character and themes, and those still hold up. Ultimately, its not a movie about a hustler coming to NYC from small town Texas and getting disillusioned, or about the dying homeless guy who takes him in... it's a movie about how lonely we all are, particularly in a crowded city, and how much we need each other. That these 2 lost souls find each other, and even save each other in a way, gives a sweet poignancy to an otherwise dark and tragic tale, and that's why its still worth watching.

Really? Was he there with Honey Ryder?

i got 9 out of top 10 categories, missing only supporting actor. I thought it would be Bobby D, not another one for the deserving Waltz. ARGO Ang Lee DDLewis J.Lawrence A.Hathaway x- R.Deniro (Waltz) screenplays - Django / Argo Score - Pi Song - Skyfall Also got Foreign (Amour), Animation (Brave) and Doc (Sugarman). I would've won in a weighted pool, but in a straight up pool i missed most of the craft / shorts categories, so lost out.

Marie is 12 years younger than Burton; but at that point he was still married and hadn't yet met her. So the mystery girl was probably someone else he was cheating with.

i like Petrossian. The babe was probably Lisa Marie, a young model who was his girfriend in 1992. She appeared in a few of his early films, up through PLANET OF THE APES, when he met HBCarter.

i don't like filmed plays. i like play plays and film films.

mets content: one of Keaton's last leading roles in a Hollywood feature was in "Game 6", about the Mets/Boston WS. i never saw it. Any good?

metirish wrote: ...Why did that success never translate for Keaton?... um... you do realize that Michael Keaton was one of the biggest movie stars on the planet through the 1980s, well into the 90s, right? I'd say his success translated quite nicely. 1996 Multiplicity 1994 Speechless 1994 The Paper 1992 Batman Returns 1990 Pacific Heights 1989 Batman 1989 The Dream Team 1988 Beetlejuice 1986 Gung Ho 1984 Johnny Dangerously 1983 Mr. Mom 1982 Night Shift

But Johannson can act, too.

S-S-Scarlett as B-B-Black widow. What in BATTLESHIP is better than that?

"lady love" suggests the right tone to me for an essay on Tim Burton. thanks for the crudup correction.