Frayed Knot

Ashie62 wrote: Cmon..football is still going! One need not be a substitute for the other you know. In fact I can't think of why one would think they should be treated as such.

Pelfrey re-ups with the Twins; 2 years for $11mil guaranteed plus up to $3.5 in incentives. Life can't be too bad when 5-13 / 5.19 ERA / 1.55 WHiP nets you a raise plus increased job security (coming off 1-yr/$4mil deal).

Yup, Danny Darwin it is, an answer that I wouldn't have come up with if given all week. Maybe it's because he spent all that time in AL but, to me anyway, he's got to be the most anonymous 21 year ML vet in the recent era. Kind of a weird career too. 21 years in the majors split among Texas, Houston, Boston, San Fran, Milwaukee, Pitt, Toronto, and the ChiSox. But he started barely half the time (371 starts - 716 appearances) and almost 20% of those starts came after he turned 40 - starting 25, 24, & 25 games at age 40, 41 & 42 in the final three years of his career, ending with the 1998 Giants. He wound up with 171 wins (lost 182), had a decent career ERA (3.84) and WHiP (1.27) and led the league in ERA & ERA+ once, WHiP twice, low walk rate & low HR rate once each - yet never made an AS team, never got a single CY vote, and never appeared in a post-season game (despite being on the �86 Astros). PITCHER# TimesAGESPHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 48JAMIE MOYER641 - 46CHARLIE HOUGH541 - 45NOLAN RYAN541 - 45TOMMY JOHN341, 44 - 45RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 44DAVID WELLS341, 42, 44GREG MADDUX241 - 42DON SUTTON241, 42JOE NIEKRO241, 42KENNY ROGERS241, 43ROGER CLEMENS241 - 42DENNIS MARTINEZ141DANNY DARWIN142ANDY PETTITTE141TIM WAKEFIELD141STEVE CARLTON142JERRY KOOSMAN141TOM SEAVER141TOM GLAVINE141

That's one of 'em PITCHER# TimesAGESPHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 48JAMIE MOYER641 - 46CHARLIE HOUGH541 - 45NOLAN RYAN541 - 45TOMMY JOHN341, 44 - 45RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 44DAVID WELLS341, 42, 44GREG MADDUX241 - 42DON SUTTON241, 42JOE NIEKRO241, 42KENNY ROGERS241, 43ROGER CLEMENS241 - 42DENNIS MARTINEZ1411ANDY PETTITTE141TIM WAKEFIELD141STEVE CARLTON142JERRY KOOSMAN141TOM SEAVER141TOM GLAVINE141 Incorrect: Livan Hernandez El Duque Hernandez Jose Contreras Bert Blyleven Tom Candiotti John Smoltz Gaylord Perry Chick Tattoo

Rule 1: Telling Yiddish jokes to WASPs is a waste of time. It just draws blank stares. Rule 2: Smoltz is wrong. He did it at 40 but not at 41 or 42 Two words: CHICKEN, EVOLUTION

Gaylord Perry was not correct in either guess - he did make 25 or more starts at the ages of 41, 43 & 44, but he did so prior to 1984 so he just misses the 'last 30 seasons' cutoff. David Wells IS correct, but it was also correct when it was first guessed some 10 hours ago (check the chart) And, to the best of my knowledge, John Chickenfat never pitched in the major leagues.

THE FORTY-MAN ROSTER THREAD: NOW WITH MORE ARROWS!!!

Ummmm ... Frankenfruiter? Dog the Banana Hunter? I am Hungry, Yellow? Oscar M. Chiquita? Frank Dole? Slippery Buns? Brat Worst? Ohhhh, Frank Tanana In that case, it's wrong.

Of course, he always used to say that while he may be over 40, his left elbow was still in its teens. PITCHER# TimesAGESPHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 48JAMIE MOYER641 - 46CHARLIE HOUGH541 - 45NOLAN RYAN541 - 45TOMMY JOHN341, 44 - 45RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 44DAVID WELLS341, 42, 44GREG MADDUX241 - 42DON SUTTON241, 42JOE NIEKRO241, 422ROGER CLEMENS241 - 42DENNIS MARTINEZ1411ANDY PETTITTE141TIM WAKEFIELD141STEVE CARLTON142JERRY KOOSMAN141TOM SEAVER141TOM GLAVINE141 Incorrect: Livan Hernandez El Duque Hernandez Jose Contreras Bert Blyleven Tom Candiotti Chick Tattoo

Seaver & Selma

Brother Phil was the first guess but it took a while to think of Joe, even though he's another one of the two-timers. PITCHER# TimesAGESPHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 48JAMIE MOYER641 - 46CHARLIE HOUGH541 - 45NOLAN RYAN541 - 453RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 44DAVID WELLS341, 42, 44GREG MADDUX241 - 42DON SUTTON241, 42JOE NIEKRO241, 422ROGER CLEMENS241 - 42DENNIS MARTINEZ1411ANDY PETTITTE141TIM WAKEFIELD141STEVE CARLTON142JERRY KOOSMAN141TOM SEAVER141TOM GLAVINE141 Incorrect: Livan Hernandez El Duque Hernandez Jose Contreras Bert Blyleven

I don't know what that is - but whoever it is I'm pretty sure it's wrong.

Livan Hernandez - out of baseball by the time he was 37 (or so the record claims) Jose Contreras - Hasn't started a game since 2009 and hasn't started at least 25 since 2007 Bert Blyleven - Started 24 games at age 41 ... oh so close But Don Sutton is correct!! He's correct twice in fact. PITCHER# Times AGE PHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 48JAMIE MOYER641 - 46CHARLIE HOUGH541 - 45NOLAN RYAN541 - 453RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 44DAVID WELLS341, 42, 44GREG MADDUX241 - 42DON SUTTON241, 4222ROGER CLEMENS241 - 42DENNIS MARTINEZ1411ANDY PETTITTE141TIM WAKEFIELD141STEVE CARLTON142JERRY KOOSMAN141TOM SEAVER141TOM GLAVINE141 Incorrect: Livan Hernandez El Duque Hernandez Jose Contreras Bert Blyleven

Yes, and we also accept answers in morse code and semaphore PITCHER# Times AGE PHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 48JAMIE MOYER641 - 46CHARLIE HOUGH541 - 45NOLAN RYAN541 - 453RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 44DAVID WELLS341, 42, 44GREG MADDUX241 - 42222ROGER CLEMENS241 - 42DENNIS MARTINEZ1411ANDY PETTITTE141TIM WAKEFIELD141STEVE CARLTON142JERRY KOOSMAN141TOM SEAVER141TOM GLAVINE141 Five answers still remain - and I'm betting that at least one of them stays that way for quite some time.

PITCHER# Times AGE PHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 48JAMIE MOYER641 - 46CHARLIE HOUGH541 - 45NOLAN RYAN541 - 453RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 44DAVID WELLS341, 42, 44GREG MADDUX241 - 42222ROGER CLEMENS241 - 4211ANDY PETTITTE141TIM WAKEFIELD141STEVE CARLTON142JERRY KOOSMAN141TOM SEAVER141TOM GLAVINE141 Yes, even though he was mostly a reliever until his late 70s, Wakefield did manage to slide one season of starting under the wire. And how quickly we forget the most recent example. Wrong Answers: Orlando Hernandez

PITCHER# Times AGE PHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 48JAMIE MOYER641 - 46CHARLIE HOUGH541 - 45NOLAN RYAN541 - 453RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 44DAVID WELLS341, 42, 44GREG MADDUX241 - 42222ROGER CLEMENS241 - 421111STEVE CARLTON142JERRY KOOSMAN141TOM SEAVER141TOM GLAVINE141 Always a good idea to go with the knuckleballers

PITCHER # Times AGE PHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 48JAMIE MOYER641 - 465NOLAN RYAN541 - 453RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 44DAVID WELLS341, 42, 44GREG MADDUX241 - 42222ROGER CLEMENS241 - 421111STEVE CARLTON142JERRY KOOSMAN141TOM SEAVER141TOM GLAVINE141 El Duque Hernandez is NOT correct

No, nobody named Warren Goldfish started 25 or more games in the majors in the last 30 years. And you lost me with that first one too. oe: OK I just got the first one but you're ignoring the [u:2xj5equf]last 30 years[/u:2xj5equf] part - only 1984 seasons and later count here.

PITCHER # Times AGE PHIL NIEKRO741, 43 - 4865NOLAN RYAN541 - 453RANDY JOHNSON341, 42, 4432222ROGER CLEMENS241 - 4211111111

This info comes to you courtesy of Friday�s NY Times (they didn�t make it a quiz, but I am ... and, of course, no peeking for the answers) so here�s what�s up with all those numbers: - 20 different pitchers - over the last 30 years - have made at least 25 ML starts - at age 41 or older - and, because a number of them did it more than once, this group accomplished the feat a total of 50 times I�m not asking here for the how many from each, only to see if we can name these 20 recent-era pitchers (1984 or later) whose feats the Mets hope will be duplicated by Bartolo Colon at least once in the 2014 & 2015 seasons seeing as how he�ll turn 41 in May. no cheating ... one answer per, ... yadda, yadda

I think Sandy's going to need to get creative for an Ike deal to bring back enough to make it worth the trouble. I've been of the opinion all along that the way this gets done is in some kind of multi-player and/or multi-team deal. Maybe it becomes and Ike + Muffy deal; or you package Ike with a young pitcher, or with a Lagares/dDekker/Puello kind of prospect, in exchange for a couple of hopeful maybes back; or you broker something where several teams get involved to the point where there are players flying all over the place until, like a vicious crime scene, it'll take a while before all the bodies can be sorted out. Dealing Ike one-for-one just seems like such a risk that both sides will want to pad the deal with enough extras to where Ike becomes the side dish rather than the main course.

Mat Gamel has reportedly signed with the Braves. He should insist that his new contract include an extra T for his name. Omar Infante was a MFY target to fill the 2B hole left by Cano's defection but he reportedly has snubbed the Yanx for the Royals after KC was willing to include a fourth year to the deal. Just think about that statement for the moment and try and think how odd that would have sounded over most of the last couple of decades: A Free-Agent choosing the Royals over the Yankees

I think we've learned (or at least we should have) from stories like this that ballplayers' memories of even their own careers and specific plays from them are somewhat flawed at best, and often a lot worse than that. This one, differing by one baserunner and one out, is at least within spitting distance of accuracy.

- I think mgmt considers Syndergaard all but untouchable - and there's no one being discussed in this thread that I'd deal him for. - Yeah, it could just be the presence of Miller that moved Franklin off of SS (I know nothing about Miller). But of course the majors leagues are littered with guys who once played SS--as amateurs, in the minors, or as new MLers--when they were younger and/or the gap between their talent and everyone else's was much wider. Like I said, maybe he still can play there, or maybe it's more a case of now you're with the big kids so you're not automatically top dog anymore. Hopefully anyone looking to deal for him has checked this stuff out. - Ackley was drafted as an OF but then was shifted to 2B and has played several positions since. The 'tweener' label refers more to to his hitting (or lack thereof) than anything else; not really power, but not really average either. For a guy who was drafted that high out of college and then was a top 12 prospect in BA two years running, his ML stint has disappointed so far, especially for someone on the verge of turning 26.

Ken Davidoff -- Clubs are intrigued by Ike Davis� ceiling but scared by both his swing (the mechanics) and his swings (the streakiness) so it just doesn�t look realistic for the Mets to get a strong return on Davis. A bullpen piece could be as good as it gets.