MFS62

Motives? If this (the break in) is true, what about methods? Later

Or forgive them (Giambi) Later

="OlerudOwned":3myv17d1]Does it make me a spiteful, petty, and/or bad person for sincerely hoping that Jeter gets nailed for PEDs too? [/quote:3myv17d1] Is PED short for Pedophilia? Later G-Fafif Feb 09 2009 06:36 PM Jeter's totally into Peds[/url:1fn2wk9u]. Reportedly. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 11 2009 03:49 PM "Jeter�s home runs are down, his slugging percentage is shriveling, he�s hardly steals bases anymore. And that�s how it should be for a soon-to-be 35-year-old." But he's still got the intangibles of a strapping 19-year-old... for now. [Please tell me his intangibles aren't shriveling, too. Dear tiny baby Jesus, with your little balled-up fists, please let it not be so.] Fman99 Feb 12 2009 05:12 AM ="G-Fafif":27adq1wo]Jeter's totally into Peds[/url:27adq1wo]. Reportedly.[/quote:27adq1wo] I prefer speds myself. metirish Feb 19 2009 01:15 PM Yeeees , Jetes has never done steroids because he says so and that's good enough for Bob the bollox. ] Klapisch: Jeter makes all the right moves TAMPA, Fla. � The education started early, long before Derek Jeter ever wore pinstripes for the first time. He grew up recognizing the unyielding line between right and wrong, a testament to Charles and Dorothy Jeter�s influence. They taught their son so well that when temptation whispered in his ear, the future Yankee captain took off on a sprint the other way. This history lesson is relevant, of course, because of a Yankee teammate who couldn�t say no to steroids. It was Jeter�s turn to deliver a verdict on Alex Rodriguez�s fall from grace, but before he did, the shortstop wanted to clear the air about the pervasive cheating in baseball. Don�t count me among the crooks, was the essence of Jeter�s message. �One thing that�s irritating to me, and it upsets me a lot, is when you hear people say �this is �the steroids era, everyone�s doing it,� � Jeter said. �That�s not true, everyone wasn�t doing it.� With that, Jeter took a sweep of the reporters clustered around him and made sure they understood: He�s never used steroids, HGH, amphetamines or any performance-enhancing substance. �You can go down the list,� he said, and still come up clean. Jeter doesn�t dare take a census on the number of syringes that were floating around in 2003. For now, all that matters in Yankee camp is that one of them belonged to A-Rod. That�s why the captain is faced with an impossible dilemma, forced to support a fellow Bomber who has committed an unpardonable sin. To his credit, Jeter handled the balancing act with grace Wednesday. Sitting in the first base dugout at Steinbrenner Field, Jeter made it clear that, while he doesn�t condone A-Rod�s decisions, he considers it an obligation to make the third baseman as welcome as possible. The interaction between the two Wednesday was hardly warm, but certainly professional. When the Yankees stepped onto the field for their first full-squad workout, Jeter made sure to long-toss with A-Rod � his way of sending a powerful and positive vibe to the rest of the team. The gesture was subtle, but hardly unnoticed. The fans in the ballpark cheered A-Rod, although he took batting practice on a back field, away from the morning�s hub of activity. No one, of course, is pretending that A-Rod�s penance is complete. In fact, according to ESPN.com, Major League Baseball will request a fuller account of Rodriguez�s steroid use, including the identity of his unnamed cousin in the Dominican Republic. Jeter said, �Alex made a mistake, and it�s something he�s going to have to deal with.� The Yankees were similarly neutral about A-Rod in the aftermath of Tuesday�s news conference. No one confused his opening statement with the Gettysburg Address. But at least one element of A-Rod�s defense � that steroids were a swarm, preying on otherwise well-meaning ballplayers � bothered Jeter enough for him to speak up. He and A-Rod may wear the same uniform, but when it comes to cheating, the two live in different worlds. Jeter made that distinction a decade ago, when chemicals were allowing mediocre hitters to turn into home run-hitting monsters. The shortstop, who�s never hit more than 24 HRs in a season, decided it would�ve been poison � and certainly dishonest � to artificially remake his offensive profile. �In the situation I was in, [steroids] didn�t occur to me,� he said. �I was fortunate to be with a team that won, so in terms of that temptation, it wasn�t there.� Abstinence has kept Jeter�s r�sum� clean, even if it means paying a surcharge in his statistics. He�ll soon turn 35, and by every indication, the shortstop is indeed aging. His power numbers are down, notably his slugging percentage � .408 last year was his lowest since 1997. Gone are the days when Jeter was an opposite-field gap hitter. More recently he�s become a singles specialist, a ground ball machine who bounced into a team-high 24 double plays last year, tying him for fourth in the American League. Jeter makes no alibis about his shrinking footprint in the Yankees� offense, but club officials are hopeful that he�ll become more of a threat in 2009, now that he�s fully recovered from a devastating hand injury. As long as Jeter is unwilling to talk about it, there�s no way to quantify the damage he suffered after being struck by a Daniel Cabrera fastball during a May 20 game against the Orioles. But it was obvious Jeter had lost power and his signature ability to inside-out fastballs that crowded him. Jeter finished the month just 4-for-40 (.100), and even though his final average stood at .300 � and he remains the only shortstop in history with 2,500-plus hits, 200 or more home runs and .300-plus career average � it was the quietest summer of his career. That kind of slow, insidious slide would be enough to drive a lesser man into the arms of a steroids dealer. If anyone needed a boost, it would�ve been the skinny-armed Jeter. But true to his word, he stayed away from the junk, remembering the lessons of his youth. In fact, it seemed like only yesterday when Charles and Dorothy Jeter were reminding their son about the virtues of old-fashioned hard work. The words stay with Jeter because, as he said, �I don�t want to disappoint my family.� It might sound corny, a grown man still listening to his mother and father. But with three of baseball�s biggest stars � A-Rod, Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds � sucked into the steroids vortex, the sport could use some of that corniness now. Jeter suffered from a devastating hand injury last season?Checking baseball-reference I see Jeter didn't miss any games after that devastating fastball to the hand from Daniel Cabrera on May 20. http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=jeterde01&t=b&year=2008

]Baseball is at the outer limits now, a dark universe where everyone cheats and lies. Let us join hands and admit we�re down to the last player we can trust � Derek Jeter. If I dropped my keys, I wouldn't trust him if he were behind me when I bent down to pick them up. Later

There was a list in today's early edition of the Daily News that named some players who have been associated with taking drugs and steroids in various investigations. I couldn't find the link just now - it may have been replaced by the news that A-Rod may address the press later today. Anyhow, one of the names on the list was Rico Brogna. Had anyone seen his name mentioned about drugs before? Later

(Channeling The Scooter) Holy cow! This is the most shocking revellation so far. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/02/09/2009-02-09_yankees_captain_derek_jeter_says_arod_de.html El Capitan comes out with something that can be taken as a support of A-Rod? And I thought he was the guy who might have ratted him out. Will wonders never cease? Later

Funny that O'Neill's name isn't bolded. Looking back on all those destroyed water coolers and flung bats, I think "'roid rage". Later

A few minutes ago, Craig Carten on WFAN said that "30% of the year 2000 Champion Yankees were taking steroids". He didn't say where he got that number. Have any of you see that written somewhere? Even if close to true, I wonder if Madden would ask the members of that team to give back their rings? Of course not! Later

Primobolan I'm not sure about. But the article says Testosterone can be taken legally with a prescription. I mean, if he knew he was going to be schtupping Madonna in a few years, he had legit reason to be loading up on that stuff. Later

="Rockin' Doc":2e2xwbch]metirish - "Andruw Jones turns down non-roster spring training invite from the MFY's." Good to see that Jones has his pride. Better to go unsigned than sell one's soul by possibly donning a Yankee uniform. I suddenly have a new sense of respect for Jones.[/quote:2e2xwbch] B'sides, they couldn't have the signing photo op soon anyhow. They'd first have to send out Cecil Fielder's uni to have the seams let out to fit Jones. Later Frayed Knot Feb 08 2009 08:45 PM Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do. Fman99 Feb 09 2009 06:44 AM ="Frayed Knot":1zv55w66]Andruw to the Rangers - apparently gets a ML deal for low-end money (500K) plus incentives. 15mil to practically minimum wage in one year is tough to do.[/quote:1zv55w66] Yeah, poor guy. My heart breaks for him. /sarcasm Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 07:07 AM It's not like he doesn't get to keep the 15 miills. Vic Sage Feb 09 2009 09:08 AM yeah, i mean basically he just got a raise! Frayed Knot Feb 09 2009 09:26 AM Sure, it just shows a helluva difference between what someone thought he was worth last year vs what they think he's worth barely a year later. How the mighty (and fat) have fallen.

I took my meds. Amazing how they can make that Diabetic rage subside. Seriously, If you check back a few months I wanted Omar to sign him then. When? Let me take you back to that point in time: The Mets had just obtained Putz and KRod and Omar said he was now going to concentrate on starters. The Mets needed both a #2 and a #5 starter, plus additional middle men, especially lefties. People on this board were saying the Mets needed innings from the #5 starter, and not necessarily great ones. There was a concern about paying high salaries. There were also gaping holes on the bench. This was before Omar started signing players at salaries that seem inflated in today's market. (I'm thinking of Cora) That was the time I posted that I wanted Omar to sign Odalis as at least a candidate for the #5 job. And use the money saved to strengthen other positions. I think I mentioned Hudson. To me, Odalis would have been better, and cheaper, than any of the other "#5" starters that Omar has signed, unless Niese develops quickly. Later

OK, maybe not livid. But I made a CPF prediction that Omar would sign him. And I wanted to start off the year with one good prediction. (for a change) But still, why wasn't he worth a looksee? Later

how livid I am. I didn't know whether this fits into the starter or reliever thread so I started another. ]Nationals, LHP Perez agree to minor league deal AP, Feb 5, 2009 Odalis Perez and the Washington Nationals agreed to a non-guaranteed minor league contract Thursday. The left-hander went 7-12 with a 4.34 ERA for Washington in 2008, throwing 159 2-3 innings over 30 starts. He would get $850,000 if he makes the major league club this season. All the time the Mets were looking for starters, or lefties, I never read that they had any interest in this Perez. His ERA was only 0.10 or so worse than Ollie Perez'. But the Mets spent similar money on the Elmer Dessens of this world this off season? Can someone please explain that to me? Later

]In her lawsuit, Kim claimed Shamsky's infidelity led her to catch a sexually transmitted disease. IIRC, this was in Ball Four: In answer to a survey question,"What is the toughest thing you ever had to do as a ball player?" First baseman Mike Hegan replied,"Trying to convince my wife why she needed a Penicillin shot for my kidney infection." Later

="batmagadanleadoff":3ci4j7sp]26) C-Rod says I'm better.[/quote:3ci4j7sp] No fair. The thread title says 25. Replay Ref, we need a ruling on this. Later Centerfield Feb 04 2009 09:09 AM For some reason, Derek Jeter seems to be having trouble coming up with number 27. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 04 2009 09:10 AM Holy shit. metsguyinmichigan Feb 04 2009 09:34 AM ="Centerfield":36uphpr0]For some reason, Derek Jeter seems to be having trouble coming up with number 27.[/quote:36uphpr0] Bullet of cool! batmagadanleadoff Feb 04 2009 09:46 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 04 2009 10:23 AM ="MFS62":1vreyywl]="batmagadanleadoff":1vreyywl]26) C-Rod says I'm better.[/quote:1vreyywl] No fair. The thread title says 25. Replay Ref, we need a ruling on this. Later[/quote:1vreyywl] Hi. I'm Derek Jeter. Did you really think I'd be able to limit myself to just 25 things? 28) This morning, I was cleaning the inside of my belly button and I found two million dollars in there. I can't wait to get into my asshole. 29) I will personally bail out Citigroup if the new stadium is named Jeter Field. It's only lunch money to me. batmagadanleadoff Feb 04 2009 09:50 AM 30) I like to drive Mets fans crazy. One way I accomplish this is by secretly posting on the Crane Pool Forum under the alias of SteveJRogers. Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 10:23 AM OK move on to Hank Steinbrenner's essay. 1) I tried to rock the turtleneck and blue blazer look like though old man. I really did. Some things just can't be imitated though. batmagadanleadoff Feb 04 2009 10:36 AM 2) I could fuck Kathy Bates. If I wanted to. I just don't want to. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 04 2009 11:03 AM 3) I was considered less qualified to run the Yankees than my alcoholic ex-brother-in-law by my own father, but don't be alarmed. He's an asshole ttoo! Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 11:05 AM ="Centerfield":3qzzr4t4]For some reason, Derek Jeter seems to be having trouble coming up with number 27.[/quote:3qzzr4t4] I think maybe I'll suddenly get this in the shower tomorrow morning. metirish Feb 04 2009 11:14 AM 4) Like Barney I fucked Selma Edgy DC Feb 05 2009 09:09 AM 5) I have standing fucking order with the fucking Doobie Brothers. They go back out on the road, they call me and let me know. Met Hunter Feb 05 2009 03:51 PM 6) I have no idea what I'm doing. But my name is Steinbrenner, so the Yankee fans will worship me no matter what I do. I'll probably have to beat the fans off with a stick, because anything Yankees is so damn important and valuable. Burp. 7) I think we need to trade ARod. Not because of Torre's book. Derek says his ass is killing him. Edgy DC Feb 06 2009 10:04 AM 8) I voted for Squinty. Centerfield Feb 06 2009 10:05 AM Did you get the 27 joke yet? Edgy DC Feb 06 2009 10:07 AM Whoosh. Fman99 Feb 06 2009 10:07 AM 9) My all time favorite movie is Tommy Boy. Centerfield Feb 06 2009 10:22 AM 26 World Championships. 27 has been elusive. Edgy DC Feb 06 2009 10:29 AM I am the dullest of Met fans. Centerfield Feb 06 2009 10:31 AM Um. You're smarter than soupcan. Maybe. John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 06 2009 10:31 AM You mispelled dumbest. A Boy Named Seo Feb 06 2009 10:33 AM ="Fman99"]9) My all time favorite movie is Tommy Boy. Funny because it's probably true. Frayed Knot Feb 06 2009 10:42 AM 10) I honestly believe that installing a standard where future managers will be barred in perpetuity from speaking derisively of the club or any of its employees is totally consistent with an organization run by my father for 35 years. soupcan Feb 06 2009 10:46 AM ="Centerfield"]Um. You're smarter than soupcan. Maybe. What the fuck? At least I got your stupid joke. Centerfield Feb 06 2009 11:15 AM I harbor resentment from when you made me take down my ice rink. I was just trying to be a good dad is all. soupcan Feb 06 2009 11:48 AM Eat me. G-Fafif Feb 06 2009 12:17 PM 11. I think The Joba Rules ruined Return of the Jedi. metirish Feb 06 2009 12:22 PM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 06 2009 04:49 PM 12 ) I jog like I do because of the biles between my ass cheeks. Doh , I forgot that this was about Hank and not Jetes.... Edgy DC Feb 06 2009 01:03 PM 13) The pope was going to celebrate a mass at at some other stadium. I asked him if he wanted to be remembered as a Yankee or Toledo Mud Hen. Centerfield Feb 06 2009 01:05 PM Fantastic. Kong76 Feb 06 2009 04:45 PM Is Cashbag gonna bring me another Heiny or am I gonna have to go over there and crack some heads? *belch* Edgy DC Mar 03 2009 07:31 AM 14) I used to go the stadium in the eighties and my dad would send me down to the locker room to abuse Henry Cotto. I would mess with his stuff and a call him stuff and he couldn't do anything. He knew where his bread was buttered. That's where I learned.

="Edgy DC":29yyay7y]Viva Fernando.[/quote:29yyay7y] Si Si. Here's the video of the game winning dinger my kid hit yesterday:(plus the story - in English) http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090203&content_id=3796224&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb Later John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 04 2009 12:06 PM Here's a funny thing I found in a writeup of the opener while searching for nooz on Casanova: ]The Mexico-Puerto Rico game was moved back an hour from its original scheduled time of 6 p.m. for the opening ceremonies that started with the presentation of each team, including national anthems. Singing Mexico�s national anthem was Julio Preciado, a well-known singer in the country, but after his per-formance he might as well move to a different country. Preciado sang the national anthem out of synchronization, which the crowd replied with boos and whistling. It was so bad the microphone was turned off before he could finish the song. After the microphone was turned back on, Preciado blamed his bad performance on an awful feedback from the sound system. No matter what the reason, Preciado left the field amid boos and cups of beverages thrown at him. Edgy DC Feb 04 2009 12:19 PM Say what you will about Julio, but don't say he doesn't love trees. Kong76 Feb 05 2009 07:09 PM Pulsipher is pitching tonight for Puerto Rico. I thought he was from Georgia or Mississippi. Kong76 Feb 06 2009 07:13 PM I don't know if this is in another thread, but Fernando Mart�nez went back to NY for a lookee at his elbow or something at the request of the Mets. Dude is starting to get the injury-prone tag? Frayed Knot Feb 07 2009 05:18 AM Newsday: The Mets announced Friday that Fernando Martinez, their highly regarded young outfielder, has a strained right elbow and will rest for three weeks before resuming a throwing program. So this at least prevents him from hitting the ground running when ST starts. On the other hand it's not like he'll be out of shape after playing much of the winter and, assuming this isn't a long-term problem, it might almost be a good thing seeing as it'll take the idea of starting the season with him in Queens from creeping into anyone's mind. metirish Feb 07 2009 05:58 AM ="Kong76":i3pptdpk]Pulsipher is pitching tonight for Puerto Rico. I thought he was from Georgia or Mississippi.[/quote:i3pptdpk] I was watching the game last night and they mentioned that Bobby Valentine was MVP of the 1973 Series while playing for the Dominican Republic , Doyle Alexander had the most wins in that series. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Caribbean_Series Kong76 Feb 07 2009 12:22 PM Yeah, it's not a heritage thing like the classic series. I probably thought I was being clever or funny ... I should stop that.

I'm thinking of taking up a collection to buy the naming rights. I'll name it "Cranepool Forum Field". If you're interested in contributing ($1 million minimum. No pikers, pease.) PM me, and I'll give you the number of my off shore account to which you can wire the money. Later

Per Metsblog Update, 8:56 am: Michael Espo, a long-time and trusted reader of MetsBlog.com, just sent in the following e-mail: �Moments ago on CNBC, Doug Kass, a noted investor and short seller, who is a member of the country club where Bernie Madoff solicited many of his investors, said, �scuttlebutt around town says that Fred Wilpon and Mets ownership may be forced to sell a minority interest in the team due to their exposure to the Madoff fraud.�� Consider the source. EDIT: Hmmmm Now that is gone from that website. I wonder what happened. Later

The interesting thing is that I haven't read anything about a 4th year option of any kind. Later

="Frayed Knot":3dmf3nk1]And then ESPN, after reading Rosenthal, then reading Lunchbucket's reporting of Rosenthal, and then hearing FAN's learning of the new deal, will say that "as first reported on ESPN" the Mets and Oliver Perez have agreed to a deal.[/quote:3dmf3nk1] Classic! Later Benjamin Grimm Feb 02 2009 12:44 PM Well, if this is true, and I suppose it is, I guess I'm pleased. I REALLY wanted the Mets to get someone better than Oliver Perez, but as this thing has dragged on, I was starting to get concerned that we'd end up replacing him with a lesser talent. I'd like to think that this will now free Omar to start thinking about the starting lineup, like second base and catcher. metirish Feb 02 2009 12:46 PM I should be excited I suppose , maybe the whole thing got dragged out or something. smg58 Feb 02 2009 12:47 PM [url:1h4dpyio]http://www.nypost.com/seven/02022009/sports/mets/report__mets_close_to_deal_with_perez_153238.htm[/url:1h4dpyio] The Post is reporting three years and $36M. attgig Feb 02 2009 01:33 PM ="smg58":ce6idxyd][url:ce6idxyd]http://www.nypost.com/seven/02022009/sports/mets/report__mets_close_to_deal_with_perez_153238.htm[/url:ce6idxyd] The Post is reporting three years and $36M.[/quote:ce6idxyd] $6 mil too much. how the hell did we pay an extra 6 mil when nobody was bidding against us? Frayed Knot Feb 02 2009 02:45 PM Eh, as usual I care more about the length of these deals than the money. If he falls on his face he'll be about as untradeable at $10mil/per as he will at $12 and if he's good who cares what they're paying him. Plus, Ollie at 3x$12 while in his 20's sounds a whole lot better than Lowe in his late 30's at 4x$15, and the more I hear about teams being fraidy-scared over what's on Sheets' medical sheets it's probably the best deal for us right now. Ashie62 Feb 02 2009 03:47 PM I like this signing..We know Ollie and 36 for three is not unreasonable. Maybe Sheets is still a possibilty. Abreu, Dunn, Manny, all out there and their price is dropping everyday. I had complained about Omar not doing enough even after signing our bullpen but he now has the opportunity to pick up some decent "scraps" to send us in spring training.. metirish Feb 02 2009 04:47 PM A good deal , welcome back. vtmet Feb 02 2009 05:29 PM ="attgig":39if8i3y]="smg58":39if8i3y][url:39if8i3y]http://www.nypost.com/seven/02022009/sports/mets/report__mets_close_to_deal_with_perez_153238.htm[/url:39if8i3y] The Post is reporting three years and $36M.[/quote:39if8i3y] $6 mil too much. how the hell did we pay an extra 6 mil when nobody was bidding against us?[/quote:39if8i3y] I think at this point of the game, the mets just wanted to get resolution so that they either knew that they had Ollie or had to sign someone else before all the rest of the choices signed elsewhere...Boras probably had no problem waiting it out, but the Mets risked not having other options the longer that it dragged out, so throw in some extra cash to get it resolved or move on... I do wonder if it's going to be a straight 12/12/12 or something more staggered to make it look like Ollie was getting more valuable before he enters FA again in 3 years (10/12/14?)...however, Cot's Contracts already has Ollie penciled in at 12/12/12... MFS62 Feb 02 2009 05:46 PM The interesting thing is that I haven't read anything about a 4th year option of any kind. Later vtmet Feb 02 2009 06:08 PM ="MFS62":2j1prp9w]The interesting thing is that I haven't read anything about a 4th year option of any kind. Later[/quote:2j1prp9w] supposedly there is no 4th year option... Rockin' Doc Feb 03 2009 07:08 PM It's good to have the rotation filled out. Ollie has great potential, but I wonder where his head is at sometimes. I like the length of the contract at 3 years, but I think the Mets overpaid a little bit in terms of dollars. I'm hopeful that there is a little money left for Omar to improve the offense before the season starts. Edgy DC Feb 12 2009 07:42 AM Jeff Wilpon, really happy about this contract. Vince Coleman Firecracker Feb 12 2009 10:43 AM ="Edgy DC":1erpfy00]Jeff Wilpon, really happy about this contract. [/quote:1erpfy00] Yikes, that's one tense-looking relationship there. Looks like someone's not getting anal for Valentine's Day. metsmarathon Feb 12 2009 04:10 PM jeffy looks a bit steve carrell-ish there, no?

2) I made Mariah Carey reach a higher octave. Later

Willy Mo Pena could strike out in a brothel. Later

According to Forbes Magazine: http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/27/mets-sports-mascots-business-sportsmoney_0127_sports_mascots.html But I hope they're wrong when they say it will be "the only thing Mets fans have to cheer about this year." Later

="Centerfield":yqwks2q2]Just get him Wilpons. You've already lost $300 million. What's another 25 to 50?[/quote:yqwks2q2] So, there could be another rally. It would be for Mets fans who want the team to get a premier slugger, but are sensitive to the Wilpons' financial situation. Didn't Barry Bonds say that he would work for major league minimum? Well ... ? (I'm taking my tongue out of my cheek now) Later dgwphotography Jan 31 2009 08:11 AM I can't believe someone desecrated a Kelvin Torve jersey like that... Nymr83 Jan 31 2009 02:00 PM ="Centerfield":3e8zl7im]You know, if we really wanted Manny, we'd ask Mike Francesa to make it happen.[/quote:3e8zl7im] i havent even listened to the fat slob since mad dog left, whats he have to do with anything SteveJRogers Jan 31 2009 04:41 PM ="Nymr83":jel5ptoj]="Centerfield":jel5ptoj]You know, if we really wanted Manny, we'd ask Mike Francesa to make it happen.[/quote:jel5ptoj] i havent even listened to the fat slob since mad dog left, whats he have to do with anything[/quote:jel5ptoj] I think it is just a reference to him constantly demanding that something SHOULD happen, no debates. metsmarathon Jan 31 2009 08:45 PM or the fact that, if you listen to him tell it, he's the reason the mets got piazza way back when. SteveJRogers Jan 31 2009 08:50 PM ="metsmarathon":192yr4eq]or the fact that, if you listen to him tell it, he's the reason the mets got piazza way back when.[/quote:192yr4eq] Well there is truth to that. Apparently Wilpon and Phillips were both okay with not going after Piazza and sticking with Hundley, even with him on the shelf. Then Nelson Doubleday just happened to hear the show while both Mike and Chris were ranting about the Mets getting the guy. Next thing you know, Nelson tells Phillips to make the move. That story became so well known that when Mike Piazza first appeared on with Mike & Chris he says "Oh yeah, just wanted to say thanks for getting me here!" batmagadanleadoff Jan 31 2009 09:24 PM ="SteveJRogers":2p4dcmq4]="metsmarathon":2p4dcmq4]or the fact that, if you listen to him tell it, he's the reason the mets got piazza way back when.[/quote:2p4dcmq4] Well there is truth to that. Apparently Wilpon and Phillips were both okay with not going after Piazza and sticking with Hundley, even with him on the shelf. Then Nelson Doubleday just happened to hear the show while both Mike and Chris were ranting about the Mets getting the guy. Next thing you know, Nelson tells Phillips to make the move. That story became so well known that when Mike Piazza first appeared on with Mike & Chris he says "Oh yeah, just wanted to say thanks for getting me here!"[/quote:2p4dcmq4] I believe this story. Well, not really. But it is consistent with my low perception of our owner, Fred Wilpon. Frayed Knot Feb 01 2009 08:14 AM ]Well there is truth to that. Well there is speculation about that. Phillips' line of thing was that with a catcher already under contract the "chips" might be best spent elsewhere or maybe saved for another day. But then the boss whispered (asked?, pleaded?, demanded?) in his ear he changed his tune and started looking into things. Whether Doubleday's action was as the result of the M&MD scream-a-thon is up to interpretation and even the duo never claimed that they were anything other than a small part in it. Centerfield Feb 02 2009 08:29 AM The Piazza rumor is what I was alluding to. I didn't think anyone really believed that rumor except the die-hard listeners of that show, but you learn something new every day. metsmarathon Feb 02 2009 08:33 AM well, it is steve. Edgy DC Feb 02 2009 08:50 AM I think this should be called the "We Want Attention" rally. SteveJRogers Feb 02 2009 09:55 AM ="Centerfield":1okcvwit]The Piazza rumor is what I was alluding to. I didn't think anyone really believed that rumor except the die-hard listeners of that show, but you learn something new every day.[/quote:1okcvwit] Actually it is more of the anti-Wilpon/Phillips and/or pro-Doubleday faction of Met fans that believe that rumor more so than any WFAN listener. As Frayed said, even Mike & Chris have down played it over the years. SteveJRogers Feb 02 2009 09:56 AM There is apparantly a second rally this week. batmagadanleadoff Feb 02 2009 10:05 AM ="SteveJRogers":1jsdgsxe]There is apparantly a second rally this week.[/quote:1jsdgsxe] That's great. Maybe they can get Piazza to unretire. I hope someone there remembers to rally for better tasting hot dogs, too. Edgy DC Feb 02 2009 10:06 AM The idea that the team makes decisions based on the loudest howling of the galoots is a fantasy of the loudest galoots. batmagadanleadoff Feb 02 2009 10:08 AM ="Edgy DC":qq882pog]The idea that the team makes decisions based on the loudest howling of the galoots is a fantasy of the loudest galoots.[/quote:qq882pog] Galoots? Were you watching TCM last night? Paul Muni's character's favorite word was "galoots". Benjamin Grimm Feb 02 2009 11:11 AM ="Edgy DC":241ookcj]The idea that the team makes decisions based on the loudest howling of the galoots is a fantasy of the loudest galoots.[/quote:241ookcj] Well, yes, but you often mention that, for example, we (the fans) share in the responsibility for Shea's destruction because we didn't advocate strongly enough or loudly enough for its continued existence. These guys, whether you agree with them or not, are trying to wield whatever influence they may have in order to get their desired result. They may be a bunch of loudmouth goofballs, and you may not agree with their position, but aren't they doing what they ought to be doing? Edgy DC Feb 02 2009 11:18 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Feb 02 2009 11:48 AM I'm all for advocating, it's true. But there's got to be some real responsiblity. I'm against the jungle advocacy or street rallies around such slogans as "Do It, Omar!" and calling hang-up radio shows. I'm also against the sort of two-faced advocacy that allows you to demand the same sort of moves that the advocate is ripping them for making in the past. (See: Waaaa[/url:t7bvepsr]!) G-Fafif Feb 02 2009 11:44 AM ="Edgy DC":qsnlyp29]I'm all for advocating, it's true. But there's got to be some real responsiblity. I'm against the jungle advocacy or street rallies around such slogans as "Do It, Omar!" and calling hang-up radio shows.[/quote:qsnlyp29] Appoint yourself their spiritual guide. "Hey fellas, instead of waving the signs, you should..." What? Edgy DC Feb 02 2009 11:46 AM Post on a website that nobody reads, of course. G-Fafif Feb 02 2009 11:47 AM Do that, and Manny signs, you can always take credit. Edgy DC Feb 02 2009 12:05 PM And to be fair, my frustration with the end of Shea is the lamentations of people who did advocate for its destruction. Just as my frustration with rallyers who push for an aggressive spending-spree pursuit of veterans portrayed as prima donnas tend also to have pushed for that in the past, only to rip the Mets when those moves haven't worked out, and go on to portray those failed veteran imports as prima donnas that the Mets should have been smart enough to avoid. G-Fafif Feb 02 2009 12:12 PM Consistency in philosophy is always going to take it to whatever might work best at any given moment within the realm of a pastime measured in wins and losses. The Mets shouldn't spend a lot of money on old players who are bad fits, unless it seems like a really good idea right now and we need a power-hitting leftfielder, cost, age and potential personality conflicts be damned. The Mets shouldn't replace the ballpark that defines their character and soul, but they've got to get a new ballpark that doesn't form puddles just by staring at it. Fans want results and gratification. Relatively few get hung up on how to get both or why either is elusive. Edgy DC Feb 02 2009 12:15 PM It's that last sentence that gets to me. G-Fafif Feb 02 2009 12:21 PM WE WANT MANNY!!! G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:35 AM ]Relatively few get hung up on how to get both or why either is elusive. ]It's that last sentence that gets to me. Rooting for a baseball team isn't math class. You're not required to show your work. That said, here's Casey Stengel's 10-80-10 formula as related by Don Rowe in William Ryczek's sublime The Amazin' Mets 1962-1969, best history I've ever read of that period (if you're going to read two books about the Mets this year, make this your second...after you've secured a copy of your first, he said crassly). ]Ten percent of the people in this stadium knew what was going on. Eighty percent think they knew what was going on but they don't. See those drunks out in centerfield who are beating on each other? That ten percent don't know and don't care. If you use that philosophy, the fans will never bother you because you'll be able to put them in whatever category you want. The Manny marchers, incidentally, are probably descended from the placard wavers who populated the Polo Grounds. They may have distracted Casey. They probably won't distract Omar. RealityChuck Feb 03 2009 07:41 AM The team might end up losing $20 million a year of income if the Citi Field naming rights thing falls apart (and it's looking more likely it will). They'll have to pony up at least that much a year for Manny, so the bottom line is they're probably out $40+ million. Are the people rallying for Manny also rallying for keeping the Citi Field naming rights (and payments)? Because if they're not, they're being delusional. G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 07:45 AM ="RealityChuck":1wjua3of]Are the people rallying for Manny also rallying for keeping the Citi Field naming rights (and payments)? Because if they're not, they're being delusional.[/quote:1wjua3of] My guess is they're as delusional as those chanting "Let's Go Mets" in 1963. Probably more so. Edgy DC Feb 03 2009 07:58 AM Can we glean anything from the fact that the Red Sox --- the rich, smart, informed team we hope ours will one day be, employing Bill James and all and defending a championship --- traded Ramirez in the heat of a race? That shouldn't kill the notion, but shouldn't it humble folks a bit in their demands that this is a no-brainer? G-Fafif Feb 03 2009 08:05 AM ]Can we glean anything from the fact that the Red Sox --- the rich, smart, informed team we hope ours will one day be, employing Bill James and all and defending a championship --- traded Ramirez in the heat of a race? That shouldn't kill the notion, but shouldn't it humble folks a bit in their demands that this is a no-brainer? The team that traded Manny got to the LCS. So did the team that acquired Manny. It's the Manny who went to L.A. people remember, not the Manny who got himself run out of Boston. Every time you see a clip package of Manny highlights, there's nothing sullen from his last days with the Red Sox. It's all home runs and smiles with the Dodgers. That's the part of the fan brain that's working this cold winter. Centerfield Feb 03 2009 08:06 AM I think we may have set some sort of record for assumptions in a single thread. ="SteveJRogers":a9e7kszf]Not only that, how about when all the things that caused him to be persona non grata in Boston rear it's ugly head. You can only take "Manny being Manny" so much.[/quote:a9e7kszf] Manny reared his ugly head in Boston to the tune of a .927 OPS, which would have led all Mets. In July, he quit on the Red Sox by bumping that to 1.060. Afterwards, he got hot. ="SteveJRogers":a9e7kszf]Well there is truth to [Francesa and Russo being responsible for delivering Piazza].[/quote:a9e7kszf] No. There may be truth. It is all based upon speculation created by callers of the show who wanted to pat themselves on the back. ="Edgy DC":a9e7kszf]I'm all for advocating, it's true. But there's got to be some real responsiblity.[/quote:a9e7kszf] There is nothing here indicating that any of the street rallyers lack responsibility. They might all have legitimate plans. ="Edgy DC":a9e7kszf]I'm against the jungle advocacy or street rallies around such slogans as "Do It, Omar!" and calling hang-up radio shows. [/quote:a9e7kszf] This is not an assumption, but I'm just wondering why you would prefer one form of advocacy over another. ="Edgy DC":a9e7kszf]I'm also against the sort of two-faced advocacy that allows you to demand the same sort of moves that the advocate is ripping them for making in the past. (See: Waaaa!) [/quote:a9e7kszf] Nothing here suggests any of the rallyers are that type of fan. ="Edgy DC":a9e7kszf]Just as my frustration with rallyers who push for an aggressive spending-spree pursuit of veterans portrayed as prima donnas tend also to have pushed for that in the past, only to rip the Mets when those moves haven't worked out, and go on to portray those failed veteran imports as prima donnas that the Mets should have been smart enough to avoid.[/quote:a9e7kszf] Again, it is faulty to undermine the rallyers' credibility by unfairly associating with hypocritical thinking. There is nothing to suggest these rallyers think in that manner. ="RealityChuck":a9e7kszf]Are the people rallying for Manny also rallying for keeping the Citi Field naming rights (and payments)? Because if they're not, they're being delusional.[/quote:a9e7kszf] Are you aware of any out clause in the contract? Because my understanding of contracts is that if Citifield tries to back out, they are subject to damages. Centerfield Feb 03 2009 08:09 AM ="Edgy DC":1p7alcyl]Can we glean anything from the fact that the Red Sox --- the rich, smart, informed team we hope ours will one day be, employing Bill James and all and defending a championship --- traded Ramirez in the heat of a race? That shouldn't kill the notion, but shouldn't it humble folks a bit in their demands that this is a no-brainer?[/quote:1p7alcyl] I think the LCS demonstrated how much they missed Manny's bat. Especially if you turned the channel and watched what he was doing wearing blue. Also throw in the two World Series titles they won with him anchoring the lineup. Edgy DC Feb 03 2009 08:30 AM I'm aware of that and if louts were being loutish in killing the idea I'd feel similarly. It's a delicate choice, and no no-brainer by any stretch. Wasn't it your wife who said that we'd get David Ortiz when his weight hit 300 and his knees were shot? Edgy DC Feb 06 2009 08:28 AM ="Newsday"]Million Manny March only brings 10-15 Mets fans BY KATIE STRANG | caitlin.strang@newsday.com February 6, 2009 Compared to last week, the smattering of Mets fans willing to brave the cold outside SNY studios in Manhattan for the second "Million Manny March" accurately reflected the team's likelihood of landing Manny Ramirez - rapidly dwindling. About 50 fans gathered to chant and implore Mets management to sign the free-agent slugger last week, but only 10 to 15 people appeared for the second rally. "I wanted to promote the cause and get Manny over here, plain and simple," said Gustavo Medina, 20, of Ridgewood, Queens. "If we have a power bat like Manny, and you plug him between Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado, you're gonna have a respected lineup and an outstanding New York Mets club in 2009." Even though general manager Omar Minaya has been emphatic in dismissing fans' hopes of signing Ramirez, Medina thinks it remains a possibility. "Omar Minaya has coveted that man since high school," Medina said. Holding up the other end of Medina's sign was Cliff Korn, 38, of Manhattan, who said the acquisition still could happen even though Minaya has ruled it out. "Minaya likes to make the big splash," Korn said, citing previous players who ended up in Flushing when it initially looked unlikely. "I think it's possible." Medina said they won't be deterred until adding Manny no longer is possible. When will they stop congregating? "When he signs somewhere else," Medina said. Added Korn, "And then we'll start rallying for Matt Holliday." John Cougar Lunchbucket Feb 06 2009 08:31 AM Katie Strang, bringin it strong. Edgy DC Feb 06 2009 08:35 AM Great cub reporter assignment. Hey, Katie, go out in the cold and talk to some quixotic mooks. seawolf17 Feb 06 2009 09:13 AM For a quick second, I read that as Gustavo Molina. Frayed Knot Feb 06 2009 10:34 AM ="John Cougar Lunchbucket":1v6ar1zc]Katie Strang, bringin it strong.[/quote:1v6ar1zc] Considering that the only other time I've seen her name in Newsday sports is when she's covering human cockfighti ... I mean the "Mixed Martial Arts" scene, I suppose that talking to idiot Met fans in sub-freezing weather isn't so bad. Or maybe she's an MMA groupie and enjoys that stuff, who knows.

="Edgy DC":2wqaxhlm]Listed as "Auxiliary Coaches": Mike Schmidt, Barry Larkin and Billy Ripken [/quote:2wqaxhlm] That looks like a question in a children's textbook. "Which one of these doesn't belong?" Where's Cal? Later Edgy DC Feb 05 2009 11:36 AM Jimmy Rollins to back up Derek Jeter? http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2009/02/05/sports/doc498b0918eb0ef575544613.txt I expect that kind of crap from Buck Martinez, but not Davey Johnson. metirish Feb 05 2009 11:55 AM I find it funny how other players defer to Jeter like he's the Jordan of baseball. Edgy DC Feb 05 2009 12:18 PM ]"It has nothing to do with pride (or) who's better," Rollins said. "This is a team, it's not about me or him, it's about us taking the WBC title home. I'm just fortunate to be on the team - to be on the team is enough. When I do play, I hope to contribute." Well, it may have nothing to do with pride, Jimmy, but taking the title home has a lot to do with who's better. Benjamin Grimm Feb 05 2009 01:30 PM It's nice how Jimmy is deferential and humble when he's talking about Derek Jeter, and brash and disrespectful when he talks about the Mets. Gotta love the guy. smg58 Feb 05 2009 02:17 PM Just for fun we can count the ground balls Jeter can't make plays on that Rollins would have fielded cleanly. Nymr83 Feb 05 2009 02:24 PM if the US doesnt win the tournament I want to lose on a Jeter doubleplay grounder with the bases loaded and 1 out. Edgy DC Feb 06 2009 08:22 AM ]Derek Jeter, the New York captain, said yesterday he will play for the United States against the Yankees in a spring-training game on March 3. "Hopefully, I won't see any pitches inside," joked Jeter, who will be playing for the U.S. team in a warm-up for the World Baseball Classic. "It will be funny. It will be fun." Will designated assasin Shelley Duncan be in uniform for the Yankees? metirish Feb 09 2009 08:18 PM Johan Santana feels great but will not play in the upcoming WBC. MFS62 Feb 09 2009 09:30 PM ="Edgy DC":3ekr2o8j] Will designated assasin Shelley Duncan be in uniform for the Yankees?[/quote:3ekr2o8j] IIRC Shelly Duncan was released by the Yankees when they signed one of their free agents this off season. I commented at the time that he might have made an nice pickup for the bench. Then someone called my attention to his stats..... Never noticed the Yanks re-signing him to a minor league contract after that. Did they? Later Edgy DC Feb 09 2009 09:43 PM I wasn't actually serious, but yes, he remains on the payroll as a non-roster player, and no, I don't want him. Fman99 Feb 10 2009 07:43 AM ="metirish":2uepqax4]Johan Santana feels great but will not play in the upcoming WBC.[/quote:2uepqax4] Perfect. Frayed Knot Feb 10 2009 07:44 AM Ichiro to pitch in WBC?!? Probably not, but maybe[/url:1a2k82o1] Edgy DC Feb 13 2009 07:29 AM Mets making the wrong sort of enemies. Chavez wants players cleared for WBC Associated Press CARACAS, Venezuela -- President Hugo Chavez urged major league baseball teams on Thursday to allow Venezuelan players to represent their country in next month's World Baseball Classic. "They take away the athlete's right and duty ... to represent Venezuela," said Chavez, speaking during a ceremony to honor Venezuela's under-20 soccer team. "It's constructive criticism of professional sports." Chavez said baseball should follow the example of professional soccer teams in Europe and the United States, which are forced under FIFA regulations to clear players when they want to join their national teams in international competitions. Edwin Zerpa, president of the Venezuelan Baseball Federation, said Thursday that he was particularly concerned that the New York Mets might not clear ace Johan Santana to pitch. "What's most worrisome is that they attempt to stop the pitchers, who are in excellent condition, from playing," Zerpa said. "Without good pitching, you cannot win in baseball." Mets general manager Omar Minaya has said he is in favor of having players in the WBC. Other big league stars on the Venezuela roster include: Mets closer Francisco Rodriguez, Detroit outfielder Magglio Ordonez, and Los Angeles Angels outfielder Bobby Abreu. Copyright 2009 by The Associated Press Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 10:02 AM Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players. Fman99 Feb 13 2009 10:07 AM ="Frayed Knot":2co5mxmt]Maybe someone should mention to Hugo about the players who were thinking about not playing because they believe that bureaucrats within the gov't of Venezuela are pocketing much of the money intended for the players.[/quote:2co5mxmt] Still you can't be mad at Chavez. He made that sick catch in Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS! Oh wait, what? Frayed Knot Feb 13 2009 10:17 AM Easy to confuse the two, they're both Venezuelan lefties. metirish Feb 14 2009 04:38 PM High cost of insurance is reason why Johan will not play in WBC ] PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Although the withdrawal of Johan Santana from the World Baseball Classic was for weeks a foregone conclusion within the Mets' organization, Santana said Saturday the club never withheld its approval for him to participate with the Venezuelan team in the international tournament. Santana's remarks came one day after the Classic released a statement explaining that the issue that would deny Santana an opportunity to pitch for his country was the high cost of an insurance premium. Santana, who underwent left knee surgery Oct. 1, said he is one of a number of big league players who will not participate in the Classic because of the insurance issue. He named no others. "It has nothing to do with my willingness to play in the [Classic]," Santana said. "I was preparing myself. Everything was on the right track." Santana said he had heard from his agent, Peter Greenberg, on Friday that the Classic had made a decision. Mets general manager Omar Minaya confirmed the situation with Santana on Saturday morning. "We never had to make a decision about his participation," Minaya said. "It's tough," Santana said. "It's sad. I wanted to pitch." LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 15 2009 10:03 PM Speaking of things Venezuelan: IN (provisional roster): Victor F-ing Zambrano OUT: Freddy Garcia Really? (HAS to be a lack of interest on the Chief's part.) Edgy DC Feb 17 2009 08:31 AM Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable. Nymr83 Feb 17 2009 08:41 AM ="Edgy DC":3foyo3u8]Albert Pujols, out. The pattern seems that any player who had any sort of offseason surgery, and hasn't yet returned to action (like playing winter ball) is uninsurable.[/quote:3foyo3u8] Seems like a wise policy to me. F. Garcia was injured, if he wants to make the Mets' opening day roster he's probably better off avoiding the WBC anyway and concentrating on getting healthy to the Mets' satisfaction. I hope Zambrano gets rocked. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Feb 17 2009 10:58 PM Endy and K-Rod are playing for the 'Zuelas, too. I'll enjoy the games, I'm sure... but a little part of me will be rooting against with too many of Flushing's finest on 'em, if only in hope of fewer injuries. Also, needs more team mascots. Edgy DC Feb 18 2009 05:55 AM Endy was the unlikely star for Venezueal three years ago. Brought his power stick then also. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 01:17 PM Fare thee well, Metsies, and come back safe: Beltran Cora Delgado Feliciano Figueroa (shouldn't he be reppin' Brooklyn?) Ollie P. Putz Reyes KRod Wright Am I missing anyone? Edgy DC Mar 02 2009 01:56 PM You've got to be. I saw reports saying the Mets and Red Sox led the bigs in WBC-bound players with 15 each. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 02 2009 02:01 PM Had everyone on the 40-man... but was missing a handful, yet. As broken down by country in Newsday: Australia Stefan Welch Canada Shawn Bowman Dominican Republic Jose Reyes Mexico Elmer Dessens Oliver Perez Panama Ruben Tejada Puerto Rico Pedro Feliciano Nelson Figueroa Alex Cora Carlos Delgado Carlos Beltran Jesus Feliciano United States J.J. Putz David Wright Venezuela Francisco Rodriguez So... who else is rooting for Cuba-Japan II? Nymr83 Mar 02 2009 02:04 PM Shawn Bowman (Canada), Stefan Welch (Australia), Ruben Tejada (Panama), and Jesus Feliciano (Puerto Rico) are all listed as part of the Mets' organization and are on the rosters on espn.com edit- i got beat to it, but Elmer Dessens is listed as a Brave not a Met here: [url:3izz30jv]http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2009/news/story?id=3844570[/url:3izz30jv] Edgy DC Mar 05 2009 11:17 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 24 2009 11:38 AM So, if you're the manager of Equipo DR, and you lose Alex Rodriguez, who is your thirdbaseman? Do you go to Adrian Beltre or do you move Hanley Ramirez (or Miguel Tejada) over there and free up short for Jose Reyes? Nymr83 Mar 05 2009 12:13 PM mpve Ramirez so that you have no trouble starting both him and Reyes Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:11 AM Answer is Tejada. Yeah, I'd move Hanley there also, or move one of them to second, keep Tejada at third and go with the three shortstop lineup. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:27 AM In his minor and major league career Rameriz has played one game at third , Alou can't just slot him in there surely. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:32 AM Edited 1 time(s), most recently on Mar 09 2009 10:36 AM Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner. metirish Mar 09 2009 10:33 AM Sounds good but I wonder what his club would think about moving him. Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 10:44 AM If some alleged negative consequence of Ramirez playing third for a few games is upsetting Florida, I'd sure like Alou to push the issue to find out exactly how much kowtowing the WBC managers are expected to do. At any rate, nobody stopped him from moving Tejada over. John Cougar Lunchbucket Mar 09 2009 10:46 AM The Snooze tried, not very hard not very effectively, to make Reyes' remark that he's be play wherever Alou asked into a controversy which "may make Met management cringe" in a tortured allusion to the Matsui-at-SS thing in '04. LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr Mar 09 2009 01:56 PM ="Edgy DC":2elgx6dp]Porque no? It's about catching and throwing. If Tejada can do it, why not Hanley Ramirez? The key is getting the bats in the lineup. Given a few days to work out in the spot, will he be so much worse than a Fernando Tatis that the giveback with his offensive ability isn't worth it? Anyhow, at this point, he's the better weapon, so if you won't move him to third or Reyes to second or outfield or even one of them to first, Reyes is left to be a a pinch-runner.[/quote:2elgx6dp] Porque no? This tournament means a LOT more to the Dominicans than it does to us. The criticism from the leadup and after game one has been so harsh, GM Stan Javier's already tendered his verbal resignation, effective after the games. One key error by an out-of-place guy, and who knows what happens to Felipe Alou's house postgame. They shoot people over dominoes in the DR. (Well, okay... the psychotic, 100-mph-armed ones whose names rhyme with "Gurgos," anyway.) Edgy DC Mar 09 2009 02:49 PM Well, like I said, they already are playing a shortstop out of position, and world stayed intact. High stakes mean high pressure. It's no place for the weak-kneed, but you still want to make the most effective decision. I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation. Benjamin Grimm Mar 09 2009 02:52 PM ="Edgy DC":1u447jdd]I think most any shortstop can play anywhere else on the infield with modest preparation.[/quote:1u447jdd] I would think so. And the difference between third base and shortstop is, I think, less than the difference between second and short. At third the key difference is that you have to react a bit quicker, and at second it's the trickier turn of the double play. MFS62 Mar 09 2009 06:42 PM Many years ago, I spoke with Yank utility player Gil McDougald who played in the majors for several years. http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcdougi01.shtml I asked him about the difference in playing the three positions and about the preparation for playing each. He mentioned the things you folks said above. Then he added that it only took him a few throws during pre-game at the position he was going to play that day to get his arm ready. That surprised me. I guess that's why he was so valuable to the Yanks of that era. Later metirish Mar 18 2009 01:56 PM I like the opening paragraph. That scout for the Marlins talking about the Koreans using BP to work on moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field is what Manuel was preaching at the start of camp. I wonder if that is still a big part of BP for the Mets. Scouts See Works of Art in Asian Teams� Workouts ] By ALAN SCHWARZ Published: March 18, 2009 SAN DIEGO � He could see Meadowlark Lemon turning two, almost hear �Sweet Georgia Brown� whistling through vacuous Petco Park. As Japanese and Korean infielders gobbled up grounders during infield practice Tuesday and whipped the balls among themselves in bouncy syncopation, Mark Weidemaier sensed he was watching a different sport, a different show. �They�re the Harlem Globetrotters,� said Weidemaier, who has spent this week scouting the San Diego bracket of the World Baseball Classic for the Los Angeles Dodgers. �They�re not flashy or showy, I don�t mean that. But the footwork and timing. They�re going full bore, full speed. They go through every play that needs to be made in the game. They�ll get more ground balls than a big-leaguer takes in a week.� Baseball scouts are known for watching games, but the best in the business focus just as much on pregame practice, sometimes more. Three games can pass without getting to see how a shortstop can flash into the hole, or how well a second baseman charges a slow grounder. But when top Asian teams take batting practice, a scout�s inner aesthete awakens to the beauty of the game. Tuesday night � when Korea beat Japan, 4-1, to advance to this weekend�s W.B.C. semifinals � presented a double shot for the two dozen scouts in attendance. All of them want to be prepared in case any player becomes available to be signed, and both teams� hour of pregame drills had oodles to eyeball. �Korea has a B.P. routine they use where it�s more about moving runners over and hitting to the opposite field,� said Orrin Freeman, a longtime scout for the Florida Marlins who has watched international baseball since the 1980s. �You watch a major league team in the United States take B.P., and most of the guys are just playing home run derby.� As Japan and Korea practiced before Tuesday�s game, Freeman watched from the loge seats behind first base. He saw a distinctly Korean defensive drill in which any ball that goes beyond outfielder depth draws an infielder deep onto the grass to take a relatively short cutoff throw, in large part because third-base coaches tend to hold runners if cutoff men already have the ball. After Korea left the field, Japanese infielders took fungoed grounders at almost infield-in depth, pushing their reflexes so that the real game would feel easier, not unlike how a hitter might swing three bats in the on-deck circle. Rob Ducey, a former major league outfielder who scouts for the Toronto Blue Jays, sat beside the third-base dugout and enjoyed a sonata of skills rarely seen in the majors. He saw Japanese shortstop Yasuyuki Kataoka field grounders in perfect position to turn double plays, and other infielders moving to balls on angles that would make Euclid proud. Korean third baseman Bum Ho Lee charged grounders with the intensity of October, which for many foreign players this W.B.C. might as well be. �They work their craft a whole lot more than we do,� Ducey said. �They work on their swings instead of being pull, pull, pull.� Asked how a typical major-leaguer might respond to pregame practices as intense as those of Asian teams, Ducey said: �They�d feel like it was overkill � �I don�t want to get gassed.� Major league players, not all of them, but they do enough to get by because physically they�re such gifted athletes.� Not unlike how Asia�s practices are more rigorously exacting than those in the major leagues, several scouts said that Japan�s infield drills are generally more taut than Korea�s, a difference they ascribed to Korea�s having larger players with more power and less reliance on basic run-at-a-time fundamentals. Cleanup hitter Tae Kyun Kim packs 220 pounds on his six-foot frame, while first baseman Dae Ho Lee stands a downright behemoth 6-foot-4, 264. Japan has only one regular who weighs as much as 205: catcher Kenji Johjima, who perhaps not coincidentally makes his living with the Seattle Mariners. �The Japanese, they are far superior fundamentally,� said Ducey, the Blue Jays� coordinator of Pacific Rim operations. �They take thousands of ground balls a week, not just the young guys, all of them. The Japanese run hard down the line all the time. Koreans, it�s a little haphazard at times. And Koreans are generally more physical, more aggressive at the plate. They�re more suited for our game.� And still, a few hours later, the Koreans proved that they were plenty fundamental, more so, on this night, than Japan. They beat Japan on execution alone, all in the first inning. It started with the first two batters of the game: second baseman Keun Woo Jeong grabbed a high chopper and threw to first to barely nip Japan�s speedy Ichiro Suzuki, and on the next play, first baseman Tae Kyun Kim dived to his right for a hard ground ball and threw to the pitcher hustling over to cover first. Rather than an early first-and-second, no-out jam, the inning soon ended peacefully. And in the bottom half of the inning, Japan looked uncharacteristically clumsy. After a leadoff single, second baseman Akinori Iwamura double-clutched a ground ball in the hole for what was ruled a single; later, with Iwamura trying to start a double play, Kataoka could not handle Iwamura�s low throw and got no out at all. Two batters later, Korea�s Jin Young Lee stroked a beautiful opposite-field single through the left side for two runs, a 3-0 Korea lead and San Diego�s best imitation of Tony Gwynn in years. With the loss, Japan left itself having to play Cuba on Wednesday night to stay alive in the tournament it won three years ago. Disappointing for Japanese fans, but a treat for American scouts. Just another day at the symphony. �Watching the Japanese fungo hitters is great,� Weidemaier noted. �They�re hitting every type of ball that can happen to an infielder: to the left and right, backhand, sharp one-hoppers, backspin, top spin, slow rollers. Rat-a-tat-tat, they�re so precise in all their movements. To me, that�s what makes this game so beautiful.� metirish Mar 24 2009 07:36 AM I think this quote from Davey Johnson in a way ties in nicely with the observation above from the scout. ] "I'm kinda feeling like Earl Weaver, I don't push the running game," Johnson said. "I don't think that was a big factor when I was playing in Japan. I don't think it is today. I think the stolen base and the bunt base hit, those are becoming less and less a factor in the game." Is "small ball" as Davey suggests becoming less a factor in the MLB game ? Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 07:41 AM A difficulty in such discussions is that we treat "small ball" as a monolith. Not all small ball approaches have the same merit. metirish Mar 24 2009 07:47 AM True , I shouldn't have used that term. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 08:01 AM Not at all. It's how the writers use it. metsmarathon Mar 24 2009 08:34 AM americans love to americanize their sports. and by that, i mean that we love to turn every sport into football. american football. who needs quickness and finesse when you can have power and strength? we prefer our sports to be blunt instruments presided over by blunter athletes. Edgy DC Mar 24 2009 11:40 AM Not a bad allusion. Centerfield Mar 24 2009 11:58 AM Dae Ho Lee. Not about speed and quickness. Not to rain on the "Playing baseball the right way" parade, but am I the only one that thinks the Asian players lack fundamentals? At least at the plate anyway. They all step in the bucket, they all overswing, and some of their leg kicks are ridiculous. There isn't a short, compact swing on either team.