nymr83

Benjamin Grimm wrote: That would lower the bar for retired numbers by way too much. He only had two good years with the Mets! I can rattle off a dozen players who should have their numbers retired before Carter does: Koosman, Hernandez, Strawberry, Gooden, Piazza, Alfonzo, Wright, Reyes, Darling, McGraw, Staub... Okay, that's only eleven. But still... Edgy DC wrote: Johnson. El Sid. Franco. Beltran. I could argue Cone, Matlack, and maybe others too. Carter just wasnt here long enough, imo.

Subtitles? are they speaking Gaelic or is their English so bad as to require subtitles?

Vic Sage wrote: Certainly true, which is why I said he is behind those 4. He is MILES ahead of Rivera, he may have been the "best closer ever" but to me that's like being the "best punter ever", I don't think Rivera is comparable to any hall-worthy starting pitcher. so you would exclude relievers from the HOF on principle? really? Then, presumably, DHs are excluded, too, i guess, right? so you would banish Hoyt Wilhelm, Rollie Fingers, Dennis Eckersley, Bruce Sutter and Goose Gossage, deeming them not worthy of CONSIDERATION? Not to mention E.Mart, Molitor, and the upcoming candidacy of Frank Thomas? I agree that the limited nature of their contribution makes the bar higher for them, but the point is you wouldn't compare Rivera to any other hall-worthy starting pitcher, you'd compare him to the other relievers of his era. It's a job major leaguers perform on a team (more important now than ever). I understand that you would not give relievers the points you'd give guys who pitched at a high level for 200+ IP every year, but i don't think you exclude him from consideration on principle. There are some relatively weak hitting defensive players in the HOF; they are not excluded because they didn't put up HOF worthy stats with their bats, their bats are simply put in context with their glove. By the way, Jan Stenerud is in the football HOF. so they let kickers in, when they're good enough to make an impact with their leg that outweighs their lack of impact the rest of the time. And if ever there was a reliever who meets that standard, it's Mario Rivera, loathe as i am to say so. I dont think a Dh should be disqualified, but i think they should be treated as having negative value on the easiest position on the defensive spectrum. they may also desreve a penalty for the presumed ease of staying healthy and rested there. When i look at a DH i evaluate him as if he were a guy you cringed to watch playing 1B. If Frank Thomas had spent his whole career at DH he'd still be a HOFer based on offense alone (in my opinion), but Edgar? I'm not sure yet. Thats where the 15 years on the ballot can be beneficial in giving time to decide. Its not that I want to to wait on more deserving guys, its just that I havent decided yet. I dont think Rivera is on the level of any of those relievers who are in the hall, they all pitched ALOT more innings than him, and that matters. I think its hard for a modern day reliever, who tops out probably around 1300 innings, to be hall-worthy. edit- i cant get the table to work, but Rivera pitched 200% less innings than Eckersley, and 100% less than Wilhelm, 50% less than Gossage or Fingers. He ptched more than Sutter, who I dont think belongs anywhere near the HOF.

taking the worship of a good but not great SS to a whole new level

Vic, I don't disagree that he may be in a lower tier (the Drysdale category if you prefer), but I don't see why he shouldn't get your vote along with those other guys. If you think a guy is a hall of famer, why not put him on your ballot now?

Frayed Knot wrote: Nymr83 wrote: I think Schilling is a no-brainer. He's behind only Maddux, Johnson, Martinez, and Clemens among his contemporaries. At his best Schilling was as good as any of those guys (or at least nearly so) but his career didn't have as many good/great seasons or have the consistency of that gang. And, yes, throw in Glavine & Mariano too. Certainly true, which is why I said he is behind those 4. He is MILES ahead of Rivera, he may have been the "best closer ever" but to me that's like being the "best punter ever", I don't think Rivera is comparable to any hall-worthy starting pitcher. Glavine over Schilling? My gut says no but I don't think I feel too strongly on that.

I think Schilling is a no-brainer. He's behind only Maddux, Johnson, Martinez, and Clemens among his contemporaries.

Good trade for the yanks, Montero might have some bat but he's a DH-only... Nice to get rid of him for value before he shows his bat to be only mediocre as that would kill any remaining value. Kuroda signing looks good too as it was only for 1 year, it can't hurt much even if he blows up.

I have to agree with Edgy on that, no matter how disappointing and injured Martinez has been, you'd have to think that, being he is still only 23, he would hold more value for a presumably last place team than would a backup SS or extra reliever because unlike them he has the potential to develop into something useful for the future rather than add 0.00001 marginal wins for this year. If you give the Mets credit for being competent (you certainly don't have to given their recent "success", its just a hypothetical to set up my next statement), then you might think that either a) Martinez was such a huge personality issue that it was worth jettisoning his diminishing potential or the Mets' doctors know more about his knee and/or other ailments than we've heard and they aren't convinced he will ever stay healthy for long.

Mets Fantasy Camp 2012: where YOU can earn the starting LF job!

Prince Fielder still biding his time. Who is still in on him? The Nationals, Rangers, maybe Miami?

Note to self: sell any Yahoo[ stock. It's your Crane Pool Mets Crackpot Column of the Week. the dumbass article wrote: The names of Bill Pulsipher, Paul Wilson, Eddie Kunz, and to some extent, David Wright rattle around your head among the many that have been failed experiments in Met prospect history. Actually, Pulsipher and Wilson both GOT SERIOUSLY INJURED in the majors. Kunz was a fucking reliver, and Wright????? If I think failed Mets prospects, I'm thinking Alex Escobar, Lastings Milledge Do yahoo "sports writers" exist only to make people like Bondy look competent by comparison?

[crossout:2zscga3m]Great Leader Selig has won another election with an amazing 99% of the votes[/crossout:2zscga3m] Commissioner-for-life Selig has ordered his appointment to another 2 year term. Jokes aside, he maybe kinda deserves it... He negotiated a new labor deal early without the fanfare and lockout/strike other sports have experienced lately, that counts for something.

You think Piazza won't get in on the first ballot because of steroid suspicions or because of rumors that he was "sam champion's buddy"? Does he make it the 2nd year once the "none of these guys are first ballot" dopes come along? I'm ready to book the hotel room in Cooperstown, I mean why not? I haven't been there in roughly 15 years and when is another Met potentially going in again?

What if I'd told you in '88 that Gooden and Strawberry weren't getting in? Good list of Shortstops, where is Rizzuto on that list (and how the hell is he in the hall??)

No, he's not that much better than Trammell, but both deserved to get in. Larkin-Trammell-Ripken were 3 great shortstops before their numbers got dwarfed in a different era by Arod-Jeter-Nomar(remember him? He dropped off a cliff!)

Frayed Knot wrote: Getting close to the limit: Morris has two years left on his eligibility; Dale Murphy just one Trammel has four; Lee Smith five Hopefully the surge of legit hall of famers in the next few years will see Morris go bye-bye and lose eligibility. Murphy seems a goner at this point, he doesn't have enough momentum to get in NEXT year even if you assume some sort of "last chance" jump in support. It'll be sad to see Trammell go, but hopefully the veterans committee will remember him better than the writers have. Smith can hopefully be a casualty of numbers as well, I don't think a 1-iining pitcher has a place in the HOF

Fernando Martinez? I wonder what the Mets could have gotten had they dealt him when he was still considered a "prospect", now he's gone the way of Milledge and Escobar, trade-bait gone rotten

Congratulations to Larkin! The travesty against Tim Raines continues and Bagwell is left out as well. The two of them may both be casualties of the steroid era: one for daring to hit like an 80's hitter in the 80's and the other for having big muscles at a time when "everyone was juicing." Hopefully Bagwell gets in next year with his teammate Biggio! Meanwhile, Morris seems to be a BENEFICIARY of the steroid era as the only "justification" I can see for voting for him is to completely ignore the era in which HE pitched and judge him against the pitcher of the late-90's who had to contend with juiced hitters, juiced baseballs, queztec, smaller parks, and sammy sosa's corked bat (joking on that last one)

AdamRubin on twitter says Bagwell, Larkin, Murphy,Morris. I think that's a TERRIBLE ballot with two guys who don't belong in and ommitting Raines and Trammell. I'm not (yet) an advocate of Edgar Martinez, but I'd take him over Murphy as well

Fman99 wrote: Either Kang or Kodos will be fine. Greetings puny humans! we will take over your baseball!

I don't think Cedeno hurts the team, unless he ends up blocking someone from getting promoted who would help, but he won't help things around here either.

Fuck PETA, who are they to say that hitting a ball off a tee with a bat isn't this elephant's dream come true?

I don't think Morris is even close to being HOF-worthy, I'm amazed he's managed to stay on the ballot this long (well, not too amazed, the writers are pretty ignorant), and I hope he finally gets booted off over the next few years when Maddux, Glavine, Johnson, Smoltz, Schilling, and Clemens show up (all clearly better than him.). I don't know when they retired but I'd take Mike Mussina and Kevin Brown over him as well. Maybe even Al Leiter (better peak)

you gotta love the club where this party was held charging The Boss $25 for "table rental" on a $6,000 bill.