Mike & The Mikettes: 2014 HOF Ballot

[Guest d'Kong76]

Mets just sent out an email congratulating Glavine. Fuck them.

[Valadius]

And here we are again. This seems to be an annual exercise in pissing me off.

They really ought to lower the threshold for induction, as I've argued previously, or make some kind of fundamental change in who votes for this. Or how they vote. This is embarrassing, every single year.

Next year, you've got another crop of shoo-in pitchers (Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and John Smoltz) as well as Gary Sheffield and Carlos Delgado. At this rate, you'll be seeing over half the players who played in the '90s who make it to the Hall of Fame inducted by the Veterans' Committee 20 years late. That's not fair to them.

[Benjamin Grimm]

Player (Years on ballot) Total Votes Percentage
Greg Maddux (1) 555 97.2
Tom Glavine (1) 525 91.9
Frank Thomas (1) 478 83.7
Craig Biggio (2) 427 74.8
Mike Piazza (2) 355 62.2
Jack Morris (15) 351 61.5
Jeff Bagwell (4) 310 54.3
Tim Raines (7) 263 46.1
Roger Clemens (2) 202 35.4
Barry Bonds (2) 198 34.7
Lee Smith (12) 171 29.9
Curt Schilling (2) 167 29.2
Edgar Martinez (5) 144 25.2
Alan Trammell (13) 119 20.8
Mike Mussina (1) 116 20.3
Jeff Kent (1) 87 15.2
Fred McGriff (8) 67 11.7
Mark McGwire (8) 63 11.0
Larry Walker (4) 58 10.2
Don Mattingly (14) 47 8.2
Sammy Sosa (2) 41 7.2
Rafael Palmeiro (4) 25 4.4
Moises Alou (1) 6 1.1
Hideo Nomo (1) 6 1.1
Luis Gonzalez (1) 5 0.9
Eric Gagne (1) 2 0.4
J.T. Snow (1) 2 0.4
Armando Benitez (1) 1 0.2
Jacque Jones (1) 1 0.2
Kenny Rogers (1) 1 0.2
Sean Casey (1) 0 0.0
Ray Durham (1) 0 0.0
Todd Jones (1) 0 0.0
Paul Lo Duca (1) 0 0.0
Richie Sexson (1) 0 0.0
Mike Timlin (1) 0 0.0

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Looks like Dan LeBatard was the guy who gave his vote away to Deadspin.

[Edgy MD]

Kong76 wrote: As much as they pained me year after year after year ... it's kinda nice that the two Los Bravos go in together. No? *runs to hide behind jukebox*

Kong76 wrote: Mets just sent out an email congratulating Glavine. Fuck them.

Nice.

[Frayed Knot]

They really ought to lower the threshold for induction ... or make some kind of fundamental change in who votes for this. Or how they vote. This is embarrassing, every single year.

They just elected three guys who were absolutely deserving and a bunch of others came close. I don't find this embarrassing at all.
It seems like maybe five years ago, and for a long time leading up to then, the consensus among fans was that they were letting guys in too easily.

Mets just sent out an email congratulating Glavine. Fuck them.

You really find this objectionable?

Looks like Dan LeBatard was the guy who gave his vote away to Deadspin.

Not that it matters in the long run, but I find this more lazy than instructive.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Did Roger Clemens and Guillermo Mota place severed horse heads in the beds of BBWAA voters or something?

[Benjamin Grimm]

I totally missed the memo outlining why I should dislike Tom Glavine.

"On behalf of everyone at the Mets, we congratulate Tom Glavine on his election to the Baseball Hall of Fame," said Mets COO Jeff Wilpon. "We are proud that Tom won his 300th game as a Met and were fortunate to have him on our club. His excellence as a player is equaled by his excellence as a person."

Jeff Wilpon likes him! That's good enough for me!

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I totally missed the memo outlining why I should dislike Tom Glavine.

This means you did not read anything I posted on this forum from 2003-2007. I'm hurt.

Glavine totally deserves enshrinement though, for what he did with the Braves. I just need any reflected glory for the Mets.

[metirish]

Kase is taking the piss, having some fun......

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Benjamin Grimm wrote: I totally missed the memo outlining why I should dislike Tom Glavine. "On behalf of everyone at the Mets, we congratulate Tom Glavine on his election to the Baseball Hall of Fame," said Mets COO Jeff Wilpon. "We are proud that Tom won his 300th game as a Met and were fortunate to have him on our club. His excellence as a player is equaled by his excellence as a person." Jeff Wilpon likes him! That's good enough for me!

I think the whole "disappointed by not devastated" quote still burns people. But I think his gave us some quality work, including some All-Star Game appearances. He wasn't in his prime, but still a good pitcher. Maybe some people had unrealistic expectations.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Edgy MD wrote: Kong76 wrote: As much as they pained me year after year after year ... it's kinda nice that the two Los Bravos go in together. No? *runs to hide behind jukebox* Kong76 wrote: Mets just sent out an email congratulating Glavine. Fuck them. Nice.

I meant the first sentiment, was joking about the email.

[G-Fafif]

Of the 8 onetime Mets on the ballot, only Lo Duca got no votes. One for Rogers, one for Benitez (wonder if it was the same writer who voted for J.T. Snow), 6 for Nomo, 6 for Alou, 87 for Kent (15.2%), and we've already noticed how high Piazza wasn't and Gl@vine was.

Oh well re Mike, probably in a couple of years. Oh well re Gl@vine, though 305 wins were unstoppable (and deserving, he says through teeth gritted since 9/30/2007). Thank you to the 16 voters who preserved Seaver's record. They're crazy to not vote for Maddux, but it's appreciated.

Good for Frank Thomas. Hope he invites Frank Thomas.

[Guest themetfairy]

Joke I saw - Gl@vine's plaque will be 8 inches wider than everyone else's.

[Frayed Knot]

themetfairy wrote: Joke I saw - Gl@vine's plaque will be 8 inches wider than everyone else's.

Now that's funny.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Marty Noble is another guy not voting for anyone from the steroid era. Said he didn't vote for Piazza because of disappearing back hair. Yes, you read that right.

http://www.metstoday.com/8293/12-13-offseason/why-marty-noble-didnt-have-mike-piazza-on-his-hall-of-fame-ballot/

MARTY NOBLE, national reporter
Glavine, Maddux, Morris

The candidacies of Maddux and Glavine made this vote easy and enjoyable. No angst. They're automatic; there was no need for research or investigation. Morris never has approached automatic status, but he clearly deserves the benefit of the doubt. I don't want 28 people entering the Hall at once, so I limited my checks on the ballot to three. That ought to be enough to go along with the three managers. Angst returns next year.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

MARK NEWMAN, enterprise editor Biggio, Bonds, Clemens, Glavine, Maddux, Morris, Piazza, Smith, Thomas Nine checks for me is a one-year aberration no matter who is on next year's ballot ... never again. The Hall of Fame was created for the elite of the elite, not for those who require social campaigning. I will be tempted next December to vote for only Bonds and Clemens, on the basis that no others on this or the next ballot were remotely near their levels of greatness; both are among the top three all-time as a position player and pitcher, respectively. I resisted that urge knowing I would be pilloried for obvious reasons, and I succumbed to the logjam process by checking off nine who dominated in their era. Voters (and helpful lobbyists) should frequent Cooperstown and feel the aura of plaques in the gallery -- a routine reminder of this entire exercise. It is a place for Babe, Willie, Big Train, Georgia Peach, Hammerin' Hank, Stan the Man and comparable gods. Let's now move beyond accommodation voting, forced by misguided moral trial, and choose select "locks" among the ballot no matter who carries over or is added.

So Jack Morris and Lee Smith are the elite of the elite and comparable gods?

[Edgy MD]

What if it takes social campaigning to clarify that somebody was indeed among the elite of the elite?

[Valadius]

Marty Noble wrote: I don't want 28 people entering the Hall at once, so I limited my checks on the ballot to three.

THAT is the sentiment that drives me crazier than anything else in this process. If they deserve it, you vote for them. Don't place an artificial cap on your votes. Ugh.

[ashie62]

Nymr83 wrote: Is there an automatic steroid haze surrounding Ken Griffey jr. As well? Elligible in 2 years and once looked like a future unanimous kind of guy

I have not heard any rumors of abuse by Jr... He looks like a sure thing at least today.

I read in ESPN that a Baseball Weekly writer named Pete Williams traveled to interview Caminiti in 1997 and came away with the idea that Piazza was using creatine.

Thats news to me if to be believed.

Craig Biggio got screwed. 3060 hits, cmon...

Nothing else on the ballot surprised me...

[Edgy MD]

Creatine was a legal over-the-counter dietary supplement. Whatever its merits and demerits, it's far from the same category as HGH.

I imagine most everybody was using it. I imagine a greater part of the league probably still is. It's not banned, but some studies link it to oblique injuries.

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Creatine was a legal over-the-counter dietary supplement. Whatever its merits and demerits, it's far from the same category as HGH. I imagine everybody was using it. I imagine most everybody probably still is.

Well, Androstenedione is a little more than Creatine, but also was legal and basically over the counter too no? How many team trainers probably swore by the stuff? especially for power guys?

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Edgy MD wrote: Creatine was a legal over-the-counter dietary supplement. Whatever its merits and demerits, it's far from the same category as HGH. I imagine most everybody was using it. I imagine a greater part of the league probably still is. It's not banned, but some studies link it to oblique injuries.

I was writing stories about high school students using it openly. It was right there on the shelves of GNC.

[Guest d'Kong76]

Piazza moved up in voting %, he'll get in the next year or so. It's
the guys that fall dramatically that is the real story.

Speculating about what someone who knew someone who wrote
something in the late 90's is pretty silly in 2014. My aunt's daughter
dated a guy who knew someone who had a drink with someone in
a airport bar who ...

Gotta love the shit-storm every year lately, it's kinda funny.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Creatine was a legal over-the-counter dietary supplement. Whatever its merits and demerits, it's far from the same category as HGH. I imagine everybody was using it. I imagine most everybody probably still is. Well, Androstenedione is a little more than Creatine, but also was legal and basically over the counter too no? How many team trainers probably swore by the stuff? especially for power guys?

Andro is meaningfully different.

I don't know how how many trainers swore by the stuff. How many do you know of?

[Ceetar]

Edgy MD wrote: Edgy MD wrote: Creatine was a legal over-the-counter dietary supplement. Whatever its merits and demerits, it's far from the same category as HGH. I imagine everybody was using it. I imagine most everybody probably still is. Well, Androstenedione is a little more than Creatine, but also was legal and basically over the counter too no? How many team trainers probably swore by the stuff? especially for power guys? Andro is meaningfully different. I don't know how how many trainers swore by the stuff. How many do you know of?

well, Piazza admitted to it was why I mentioned it. I was just speculating that it seemed fairly rampant (Bonds and McGuire both took it too I think) among the slugger type. I suspect when creating workout routines, it was probably a popular suggestion from trainers, guys like Greg Anderson.

But maybe that's only the sleezy trainers that will do whatever you want, not the ones that are telling you about how that stuff's bad for you. What do I know?

here's an interesting article from '99.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/11/sports/baseball-andro-hangs-in-a-quiet-limbo.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Critics of baseball's stance believe that the sport's failure to act aggressively against the use of androstenedione in part has been influenced by a reluctance to diminish McGwire's record.

Actually, the Piazza quote is in there too, and matches what he said in the book.

Mike Piazza of the Mets said he tried andro several years ago, but found it ''overrated'' and gave it up.

Here's Tony Gwynn (hey, he's in the Hall of Fame ain't he?) suggesting that maybe in a pinch the pros outweight the cons.

''We have discussions about this all the time,'' Gwynn said. ''What if it's the last year of your contract and you feel you're not playing well? With the kind of money out there, could creatine or andro or steroids make a difference in your play? And if you only take them one year to prolong your career, would it really be dangerous to your health?''

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

The Deadspin/Lebatard ballot:

Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, Mike Piazza, Craig Biggio, Edgar Martinez, Jeff Bagwell, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds and Curt Schilling.

[ashie62]

I believe Andro was banned by the NCAA at that time...

I could see Creatine being around in a locker room and players hitting it with little thought...Just a little ovaltine to help me kinda.

How prevalent was its' use? I guess the use of creatine, andro, and steroids, is open to debate..

[ashie62]

Kong76 wrote: Piazza moved up in voting %, he'll get in the next year or so. It's the guys that fall dramatically that is the real story. Speculating about what someone who knew someone who wrote something in the late 90's is pretty silly in 2014. My aunt's daughter dated a guy who knew someone who had a drink with someone in a airport bar who ... Gotta love the shit-storm every year lately, it's kinda funny.

Piazza may have peaked out already vote wise.. You have Randy Johnson, Pedro and some biggies coming up next year which will not help Piazza if the most you can pick is 10...

Beyond one writer I believe there is a perception that Mikey was a user and I believe that was reflected in the vote.....

[Guest d'Kong76]

We'll see!