If not, then who?

[Edgy MD]

At the beginning of this extension of the thread, I linked an article quoting Doug Melvin, "They�ve indicated that they have extra first basemen, and we have a need,� Melvin said. �Again, it�s all about keeping your options open. � Nothing imminent, and I don�t anticipate anything imminent. But first base is one of our needs, they have excess first basemen, so you can tie two and two together � and come up with three.�

While "lusting" is an embellishment, that quote was what I was what led me to solicit opinions earlier about possible matchups.

[ashie62]

Edgy MD wrote: At the beginning of this extension of the thread, I linked an article quoting Doug Melvin, "They�ve indicated that they have extra first basemen, and we have a need,� Melvin said. �Again, it�s all about keeping your options open. � Nothing imminent, and I don�t anticipate anything imminent. But first base is one of our needs, they have excess first basemen, so you can tie two and two together � and come up with three.� While "lusting" is an embellishment, that quote was what I was what led me to solicit opinions earlier about possible matchups.

okie dokey....

[Benjamin Grimm]

I can't see any way that this is gonna happen.

Ken Davidoff, New York Post wrote: Changing his stripes? Mets, Jay Z hold secret meeting about Cano Robinson Cano a Met? It sounds outlandish on the surface, but Cano put his best man on the job Monday night. Yes, it turns out Jay Z is as hands-on as promised. So hands-on he�s willing to shop his client across the RFK Bridge into Flushing. The hip-hop impresario joined Mets COO Jeff Wilpon, general manager Sandy Alderson and assistant general manager John Ricco for dinner at a posh Manhattan hotel to discuss Cano�s free agency, two sources familiar with the situation told The Post. Cano�s group, which also featured agents Brodie Van Wagenen and Juan Perez, initiated the meeting; Cano himself didn�t attend. Alderson went on record last week to say he couldn�t envision the Mets taking on another player with a nine-figure contract to join David Wright, and Cano sure as heck wants nine figures. He asked the Yankees for a 10-year, $310 million contract, and the Yankees countered with a seven-year offer for between $161 and $168 million. The Yankees have not held extensive talks with Cano�s representatives since free agency began, and they�re unlikely to be unnerved by this meeting, given the Mets� stated salary-commitment intentions and their payroll-slashing of the last three years. The Mets have a capable second baseman in Daniel Murphy, but it isn�t the presence of Murphy that would block Cano; Murphy could be traded. Rather, it�s Cano�s demands and desires, not to mention his love of the Yankees, that make this a shaky bet. So Cano going to the Mets remains a distinct long shot. The Mets simply had little to lose by agreeing to this meeting. And Jay Z, a rookie sports representative, could test out his pitch on a club that is ultimately unlikely to land his client. Jay Z has made it clear his representation of Cano is about marketing as well as baseball, and staying in New York with the Mets would afford Cano the many marketing opportunities the Big Apple offers. Of course, the Yankees remain the city�s top baseball team even after missing the playoffs for the first time in five years, and Cano�s brand-expansion potential � both short-term, given the Yankees� pursuit of big-name free agents and long-term, given the benefits of a career spent exclusively in the Bronx � looms considerably larger by sticking with the Yankees. While Cano ranks as the undisputed top free agent of this Hot Stove season, his precise market has been a mystery. Natural-fitting, high-spending clubs like Detroit, Texas (which could trade from its middle-infield depth for starting pitching) and Washington have yet to proclaim themselves as interested. It�s possible, as The Post�s Joel Sherman suggested last week, Cano might have to wait for his fellow top free agents Shin-Soo Choo and Jacoby Ellsbury to sign contracts so the suitors for Cano become more clear. The operations of Cano�s agent, too, have been a mystery, given Jay Z�s immense celebrity. However, Jay Z�s group Roc Nation Sports and its partner CAA, which employs Van Wagenen, have been adamant Jay Z was more than a figurehead. Jay Z has been very active behind the scenes and figures to be more in front now that it�s time to pitch his first and only baseball client.

[Edgy MD]

During my Thanksgiving NY visit, I've run in to two otherwise emotionally mature men expressing genuine distress over the passing report that the Mets weren't going to go all in on Phil Hughes.

He's Phil Hughes!

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

He's worth checking in on, like a store's Black Friday deals if you happen to be awake/around a mahl, or an infirm favorite aunt. But I don't know that I see anyone looking to go all in on Phil Hughes, except, y'know, any major-league hitter with more power than an EZ-Bake Oven light.

[Frayed Knot]

The intriguing part about Hughes comes from the idea that he was a former 1st round draft pick who, one year while coming up, was considered the top pitching prospect in baseball; he's been a fly ball pitcher stuck in the wrong park for his entire career and would greatly benefit from a move to ... well just about anywhere, but to CitiField in particular. Plus he's doesn't even turn 28 until mid-season 2014 and maybe there's something to that whole 'change of scenery' thing.
His career H-v-R HRs are at about a 2-1 ratio [76 to 36] and the slash and ERA stats show a similar bias: H=.274/.328/.479; R=.245/.306/.384; ERA= 4.96 vs 4.10

Having said all that, I'm not sure what constitutes going "all in" on him. I think he's worthy of having his tires kicked, preferably with the thought of a one-year deal for a back of the rotation type, possibly going to two (or one + one) if the price is right. I suspect he's the type that'll wind up with a smaller market team for more security (read: length) but, like I said, I think it's worth exploring.

[Ceetar]

I despise the Phil Hughes to the Mets (ooh, I should write a whole post on this. Naah, maybe just a slideshow) story on so many different levels.

It feels like picking up Yankee-trash and seems to be most proposed by the woe-is-me Mets fan that really wish they were Yankees fans.

In a lot of ways it feels like getting Pelfrey back. Which is fine really, if that's the type of filler pitcher you want. I've got no problem picking up a league-averagish pitcher instead of a crusty veteran league-averagish pitcher. But seems like Hughes wants more money than he's worth.

He's flawed, and a lot of people seem to think "Oh, just send him to Citi" like that'll suddenly make him good. It might hide some of his flaws. Certainly he's a fly-ball pitcher and a big park with a possibly very good OF defense would help a lot. But It's not going to unlock some secret magic that's going to make him realize his first round draft pick potential.

Maybe most importantly, he's just not very good.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I think Hughes is worth a long look and I guess, an arm examination, and if he checks out I might give him a ride. I can see where he could be preferable than say, going too many years on Arroyo or something.

As noted periferals are better than results so far. NOT like Pelfrey who never had as much stats as ability recommending him.

[Frayed Knot]

Y'know, Met fans who cry when the Yanx get one of our players and then cry when one of theirs come here--as if both somehow demean us while raising them--can go suck on it. Just as making moves simply for its pr value (something that's been discussed here before) is stupid, so is NOT making a useful move for fear of perceived bad pr reasons (within reason of course).

As I think I made clear, Hughes might be a guy for back of the rotation filler in the spot where the likes of Matsuzaka or Harang might be considered - remember that we're not only missing Harvey for 2014 but Hefner as well. If it turns out that he's too expensive then you move on to someone else, but to declare him that now is getting ahead of things. In the meantime, nobody is suggesting that moving him to Queens will suddenly make him a front of the rotation stud, only that it'll likely make him better and that, at age 27, it's not like his career arc is already set in stone and only destined to go downhill from here.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Y'know, Met fans who cry when the Yanx get one of our players and then cry when one of theirs come here--as if both somehow demean us while raising them--can go suck on it. Just as making moves simply for its pr value (something that's been discussed here before) is stupid, so is NOT making a useful move for fear of perceived bad pr reasons (within reason of course). As I think I made clear, Hughes might be a guy for back of the rotation filler in the spot where the likes of Matsuzaka or Harang might be considered - remember that we're not only missing Harvey for 2014 but Hefner as well. If it turns out that he's too expensive then you move on to someone else, but to declare him that now is getting ahead of things. In the meantime, nobody is suggesting that moving him to Queens will suddenly make him a front of the rotation stud, only that it'll likely make him better and that, at age 27, it's not like his career arc is already set in stone and only destined to go downhill from here.

I'm not declaring him too expensive, but I wouldn't pay him more than a bit, even knowing the market is insane this year. Of course, Arroyo (who's better) is seemingly seeking 3 years so at least if you're going to bite that bullet for a multi-year guy a younger one makes sense, but Phil Hughes?

for one, he dreams of having years like Mike Pelfrey or Bronson Arroyo, even if you use FIP or xFIP or fWAR.

There are better options. I only bring up Pelfrey because they're similar ages and similar "HE SHOULD BE BETTER" first round pick nonsense around them.

If Hughes was on another team, it'd be "Hey, Hughes is available. He kinda sucks though." but since many of the people writing about the Mets have seen him first hand, regularly, or covered him, it's easy to write about him and have an opinion. It's also easy to make up some "Fits in New York" crap too.

[Frayed Knot]

I'm not declaring him too expensive

-- Well, by declaring up front that he wants more than he deserves you pretty much are. I have no idea what his asking price in dollars or years is, or whether he'll get what he's asking for even if I knew it.
For the record, Pelfrey (since he seems to be coming up as a comparison) took a $4mil/1-year deal with Minnesota, although he was coming off an injury which Hughes is not.


"for one, he dreams of having years like Mike Pelfrey or Bronson Arroyo, even if you use FIP or xFIP or fWAR.
There are better options. I only bring up Pelfrey because they're similar ages and similar "HE SHOULD BE BETTER" first round pick nonsense around them. "

-- Pelfrey is 2-1/2 years older than Hughes and now has the worse injury history.
And while their career ERAs are similar, Hughes has better career WHiP, BB/9, K/9, and H/9 ratios. Only in HRs/9 is Pelfrey superior and, again, that could be partially narrowed by the park swap.



"If Hughes was on another team, it'd be "Hey, Hughes is available. He kinda sucks though." but since many of the people writing about the Mets have seen him first hand, regularly, or covered him, it's easy to write about him and have an opinion. It's also easy to make up some "Fits in New York" crap too.

-- "Kind of sucks" is a relative term. His 2013 was pretty lousy but he's had a league average or better ERA in two of the other three years that he was a full time starter and was an All-Star back in 2008. There's a big gap between mediocre and 'sucks' and Hughes is closer to the former than the latter.
I ignore just about all 'can handle NY' angles; that's not factoring into my argument.


My bottom line here: Tossing him into the mix of pitchers to be considered is a much better idea than dismissing him outright simply because we don't like where he came from, or because of what some idiot fans/press might say, or because he's almost certainly never going to be the version that the Yanx thought coming out of the minors.

[Edgy MD]

The issue reportedly is that he's asking multiple years. The Mets are only interested for one.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

As per fielding-independent pitching stats, Pelfrey actually rates better than Hughes over the last few years, by a significant margin. But, yeah, well, whatever-- just like that, it's moot.

The Twins are that team this offseason it seems-- the one offering security when everyone else is offering a higher AAV and 1-to-2 years. It does SEEM like a nice price. And if Hughes likes lutefisk and indoor roller coasters and ice-fishing, hey-- win-win, baby!

[Frayed Knot]

So I guess we won't be seeing Mr. Hughes following in Dillon's shoes this season.