The Ballad of Boston Bobby (split from Life Goes On...)

[metirish]

Division in the Red Sox club house........



Exclusive: Red Sox stars blast manager Bobby Valentine in heated July meeting with ownership

Boston Red Sox players blasted manager Bobby Valentine to owners John Henry and Larry Lucchino during a heated meeting called after a text message was sent by a group of frustrated players to the team and ownership in late July, three sources familiar with the meeting told Yahoo! Sports. The owners called the meeting for Boston's off-day in New York on July 26 after first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, texting on behalf of himself and some teammates, aired their dissatisfaction with Valentine for embarrassing starting pitcher Jon Lester by leaving him in to allow 11 runs during a July 22 start. It was the latest incident in a season's worth of bad relations bubbling between Red Sox players and Valentine. Gonzalez and Dustin Pedroia were among the most vocal in the meeting, in which some players stated flatly they no longer wanted to play for Valentine, the sources said. The tenor of the 2 p.m. meeting at The Palace hotel in New York turned ugly almost immediately, according to the sources, whom Yahoo! Sports granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about internal matters. Not all of the Red Sox players attended the meeting, the sources said, highlighting the chasm that exists not only between some players and Valentine but among players in the clubhouse. The perception that Valentine is being scapegoated unfairly to divert attention from mediocre performances by star players exists among some players, according to sources. Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington confirmed the meeting. Although he declined to provide specifics about what was said, he told Yahoo! Sports: "The intent of the meeting was to provide a forum for people to express whatever frustration needed to be expressed at a time during the season when things were not going exactly the way we wanted to on the field in hopes that we could put whatever issues were there aside and focus on playing games the rest of the season. That was the intent of the meeting. That was the focus of ownership. It was a productive meeting. "Since then, we have not gone on the run we were supposed to." Ownership has not wavered in its support of Valentine since the meeting, and the sources said players have accepted that Valentine will remain manager for at least the rest of the season. The Red Sox doubled down on Valentine over the last week despite the perception that his first year as Boston manager has been an abject failure. Boston, with an opening day payroll of $173.2 million, is 57-59 and sits 11 games back of the first-place Yankees and 5� behind the second wild card. The Red Sox's last sub-.500 season was in 1997. Through a spokesman, the team and Valentine declined comment. Eight days ago, besieged by questions about Valentine's present and future, Red Sox general manager Cherington told reporters: "Bobby is our manager, and we're not considering anyone else. He's as committed to managing the team as he ever has been, and we're committed to him and trying to do everything we can to support him and make this work." [Also: Tim Brown: Angels could miss playoffs if pitching doesn't improve] Henry emailed a statement to Boston media members that echoed the sentiment. "To blame Bobby Valentine for the Red Sox being .500 at this point in the season," he wrote, "is simply wrong." Some of the Red Sox's biggest names disagree. Issues that have inflamed players range far and wide. Leaving in Lester, a well-respected figure in the clubhouse, to get blasted for 11 runs and four home runs against Toronto soured players already beaten down by Valentine's managerial style. Valentine uttering "Nice inning, kid" to rookie third baseman Will Middlebrooks after he made a defensive blunder � an episode to which Valentine admitted on WEEI radio � only furthered the animus toward the 62-year-old, who is managing in the major leagues for the first time since 2002. Since spring training, players have chafed at Valentine's careless � and occasionally self-serving � interactions with the Boston media, which his predecessor, Terry Francona, handled adroitly. "I don't think it's that uncommon for complaints to be made during the season," Cherington told Yahoo! Sports. "I'm not going to comment specifically on those complaints. Our owners felt, given where we were at that time in the season, given the collective frustration, we had not accomplished what we wanted to. It was time to get together and hash things out. There were no ultimatums issued. There were concerns expressed. Some very positive things expressed, too. We felt that it was an opportunity to get things off people's chests and move forward." From the beginning of the Red Sox's courtship of Valentine this offseason to the double-barreled votes of confidence last week, the match of the hard-nosed Bobby V with the laissez-faire Boston clubhouse seemed tenuous at best. It has proven far worse, personified best perhaps by a picture circulating around via text message, according to a fourth source. Pedroia, notorious among teammates for his wit and humor, is in the foreground with a giddy smile, his tongue wagging and both thumbs up. Next to him is allegedly Valentine, face down on a table, apparently asleep. A caption accompanies the picture: "Our manager contemplating his lineup at 3:30 p.m." A general lack of respect for Valentine has pervaded the clubhouse throughout the season. It may have peaked two days after the meeting, on July 28, when Francona entered the Red Sox's clubhouse as an ESPN analyst. He started talking with Pedroia, his most strident loyalist. Other players soon joined the conversation, which lingered for 45 minutes. Francona apologized the next day. The Red Sox's tumultuous year started with their collapse last September, followed by the team declining to re-sign Francona. After general manager Theo Epstein left to run the Chicago Cubs, Cherington, one of his assistants, took control of the team � until Lucchino wrested the managerial hire from him. Ownership picked Valentine and Cherington rubber-stamped it, hopeful the organization could grow cohesive over the two-year span of Valentine's contract. Instead, the Red Sox have splintered, not a shock considering Valentine's history of divide-and-conquer management. For all of his supposed strategic genius, Valentine wore out his welcome managing the Texas Rangers and New York Mets because of his willingness to napalm personal relationships. It led to a decade-long exile from the major leagues, most of which he spent in Japan. Valentine returned no different a manager. He barely talks with some of the coaches on his staff, several of whom remain Francona supporters. The trade of Kevin Youkilis, the World Series fixture who first exposed fractures between the players and Valentine, devolved into a public-relations mess. Then there are the oddities, like Valentine devising a plan to never play outfielder Carl Crawford more than four days in a row because of an elbow that may need surgery, only to abandon the idea less than a week later. Certainly the concoction of losing and an unfamiliar style has hurt Valentine's standing with players. Ownership remains in Valentine's corner, with Henry saying in his statement eight days ago: "We have been nothing but supportive of him inside and outside the clubhouse." The support, according to the sources, baffles those against Valentine, who wonder why the meeting was called if it wasn't going to change anything. During the meeting, the players told Henry and Lucchino that part of the disconnect comes from Valentine spending excessive time in his office. He'll retreat there again tonight, when Boston takes on Baltimore at Camden Yards, still wearing a Red Sox uniform, still running one of baseball's great teams, survivor of a mutiny. For now. (AP)

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bobby-valentine-red-sox-mutiny-text-dustin-pedroia-larry-lucchino-john-henry-adrian-gonzalez-.html

[Edgy MD]

Wow.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I thought from the start that Bobby would succeed there but he'd have to do it with his guys. Will be interesting to see who goes where this offseason.

[Edgy MD]

I believe that too. But it's like it's war if you ain't his guys up there. That's a tough sell.

And it's not like Pedroia is a lump of oversalaried dead wood, but he is having a bad year. Sending around mocking pictures of your boss is not cool under any circumstances.

[metirish]

I can see a lot of guys getting shipped out of there this off-season, that or they fire Bobby, and ownership seems adamant he's the guy. In fact they way some of the players are acting would reinforce the idea that they got away with everything and anything previously, one reason Lucchino wanted a strong personality as manager.

Got to say that Francona has acted like a complete dick here too, apparently he has pulled that clubhouse routine a few times this season, under the guise of his espn gig, not cool at all.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Time to make this its own thread.

In the latest Sox soap opera, blame is widespread By Peter Abraham, Globe Staff Bobby Valentine has made plenty of mistakes this season. He is too honest for his own good when it comes to discussing the players with the media, telling the truth about them complaining about playing time (Kelly Shoppach) or their minor injuries (Carl Crawford). If somebody makes a mistake, he doesn't pretend everything is fine. Terry Francona was good at covering up and often times looked ridiculous defending the indefensible. But clearly he had a good handle on how fragile the egos were in that clubhouse. Valentine also is too much of an adherent to the idea that if a player has a problem, the player will come see him. After eight years under Francona, who was the definition of a players' manager, Valentine needed to cross the bridge more than halfway. Maybe not as far as Francona did, but more than he has. Perhaps the biggest mistake Valentine made was failing, until recently, to forge closer ties with his coaching staff. That one is not entirely his fault given that some of the coaches weren't willing to give him a chance from the start. In retrospect, Valentine probably should have demanded more coaches he was comfortable with when he got hired instead of accepting house men more loyal to the front office. If you think those reasons are good enough to fire Valentine after only one season, nothing I write is going to dissuade you. But in the wake of Jeff Passan's story for Yahoo! on Tuesday, there a few facts are worth mentioning: � The Red Sox last made the playoffs in 2009. They last won a playoff game in 2008. It is now 2012. This core group of players was underachieving a long, long time before Valentine showed up. That is undeniable. The Red Sox have become accustomed to losing. With a few exceptions, most of the players shrug their shoulders and go about their business. That business, with few exceptions, is not winning baseball games. � It's beyond comical that some players were offended that Valentine made Jon Lester pitch four whole innings against Toronto on July 22 when he allowed 11 runs. This just in: The Sox had 20 games in the next 21 days. They had worn out the bullpen the night before. Maybe the idea of further wearing out the bullpen so a 5-8 pitcher wouldn't have his lousy ERA go higher wasn't a big concern at the time. � It has become apparent over the last calendar year that the Red Sox front office made some serious miscalculations when it came to assessing the character of players they signed to large free-agent deals or contract extensions. John Lackey and Carl Crawford are obviously uncomfortable in Boston and it has affected their play. If Adrian Gonzalez was indeed the ringleader against Valentine � and he didn't deny Passan's charge that he was � that speaks poorly about his character, too. It is worth noting that Valentine was a staunch defender of Gonzalez in the spring when the first baseman was hitting .256 and going weeks between home runs. Josh Beckett, hailed as the leader of the pitching staff when he was signed to a huge extension, has been anything but. Unless, of course, the Red Sox wanted their pitchers led by somebody who doesn't seem to much care what happens to the team. It's telling that earlier this season, Valentine pulled Clay Buchholz aside and advised him to be his own man and not to follow the example set by others. Somehow � and this is the crux of the matter � the Red Sox went from being a franchise of grind-it-out, hard-nosed players to being entitled, selfish and unlikable. What are they so entitled about? That's the mystery. Yeah, five years ago you had a heck of a team. � Dustin Pedroia is the de facto captain of the team. Plenty of players follow him whether he has a "C" on his jersey or not. That he was so tight with Francona was going to be a problem for Valentine. Both men needed to find common ground in spring training and it seems that never happened. If only for the sake of the team, Pedroia should have been more demonstrative in his support of Valentine and Valentine should have invited Pedroia into his office once in a while. That would have headed off a lot of problems. Pedroia should be careful. His image is getting more bruised by the day. � None of this peripheral stuff is an issue if the team is winning and the team isn't winning because Beckett and Lester have pitched so poorly this season. Francona couldn't fix that last September and Valentine hasn't been able to this year, either. � Finally, there is the overriding idea that the front office and ownership has allowed this to happen. The Red Sox seem intent on appeasing their players as unprofessional behavior often goes unchallenged. The players are unhappy about a doubleheader? Bribe them off with headphones and a yacht trip. The players are out of shape? Fire the strength and conditioning coach. The players quit on the manager? Fire the manager. The players are unhappy with the new manager? Rush to New York and have a meeting with them. This started years ago, not when Valentine was hired. You can't fire 25 players, true enough. But when the time came, the Sox dumped Nomar Garciaparra and Manny Ramirez because they were obstacles to success. That time has come again. If Valentine gets fired, all it will be is more appeasement. Then again, you might be doing him a favor. Then he can sit around for a season, collect on his contract and not worry about winning. In that sense, he would be just like the players he was given to manage.

[Edgy MD]

• Bobby Valentine mentioned that Kelly Shoppach asked for more PT.
  
• Bobby Valentine mentioned that Clay Buchholz asked to be pushed back a day, while noting that he had no problem with that and felt Buchholz was entitled to such a day.
  
• Bobby Valentine was asked why he lifted Carl Crawford and mentioned that he had a minor injury that the press shouldn't make too much of.

Can I get a big whoop? Is this all you got?

This all smacks of "See, I told you he was trouble." Terry Collins probably makes as many "gaffes" in a single pre-game interview, only they don't get recorded as gaffes, because they really aren't to any meaningful extent, and folks aren't trying to build such a case against Collins.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Abraham really writes a strong column there complete with a warning to Pedroia. I can imagine their interactions might be dicey for a bit.

[TransMonk]

I wonder what Bobby would do with these Metsies...

[Vic Sage]

i'd pay good money to find out.

[Frayed Knot]

Abraham really writes a strong column there complete with a warning to Pedroia. I can imagine their interactions might be dicey for a bit.

I wonder what pct of the Boston media is willing to take Bobby's side like this. Usually that figure isn't too high.
But when he concludes his column with: [firing him] "might be doing him a favor. Then he can sit around for a season, collect on his contract and not worry about winning. In that sense, he would be just like the players he was given to manage."; I'm not sure he's correct there. If Bobby gets fired one year into this job it becomes highly unlikely that he's ever hired again.

[metirish]

Abraham used to work the NY beat right?, Bergen Record if I remember correctly.

[Edgy MD]

There's always Japan.

And the Yankees.

[ashie62]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I thought from the start that Bobby would succeed there but he'd have to do it with his guys. Will be interesting to see who goes where this offseason.

Bobby V goes.

[Edgy MD]

Prediction archives.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I think Ashie's correct on this.

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: There's always Japan. And the Yankees.

Mets dude!

[Edgy MD]

The Mets have had a few chances to go back to Bobby and passed.

I would love to see a Valentine/Bay swap, but we'd have to throw in a few bridges.

[metirish]

Pitching coach fired , that'll fix it.

[bmfc1]

BV wanted his own coaches but ownership dictated who his coaches would be. The pitching coach and BV didn't get along, the team sux, the shit has hit the fan... and NOW they get rid of the pitching coach. Well done!

[metirish]

Yeah, it all seems a bit reminiscent of the Phillips Valentine era except the GM in Boston seems to have no say really and it's all Lucchino. It seemed silly at the time to hire a guy because you wanted a strong personality(plus excellent manager) but then not let him have his own coaches.But that seems to be a common thing in MLB.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Maybe they'll let Bobby work with the September call-ups while the pre-Madonnas* ride the pine.

* Deliberately misspelled in tribute to posters on the old Metsonline fan forum.

[metirish]

Bobby in phone in rant....

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/21225746/bobby-v-2012-miserable-wants-return


link to actual call


http://audio.weei.com/a/62126258/bobby-valentine-this-job-is-not-who-i-am-it-s-just-what-i-am.htm


he sounds done to me.....

[Ceetar]

he's got a point.

[Edgy MD]

"Four o'clock, like that's so late for a 7:15 game. Joe Maddon gets there everyday at 4 o'clock, just for the record," said Valentine.

I hope the writers give him chocolates, because he's giving them gold.

[Guest The Second Spitter]

So much fuss over a .507 career manager with no regular season pennant.

[Edgy MD]

The amazing thing is the notion that the problem with this guy is supposedly that he's an over-the-top control freak spotlight hog, and now he's being ripped for "checking out"? Which is it?

That's hardly going apeshit.

[Frayed Knot]

Joe Maddon only gets to the park late when he gets a flat tire (he's an avid bicyclist even to the point of taking his on road trips).

[Edgy MD]

...for the record.

[Edgy MD]

Old Hoss Radbourn ? @OldHossRadbourn I have not pitched in Boston in 122 years and I would punch G. Ordway in the mouth right now. B. Valentine gets a pass on this one.