The Bobby Backlash (split from GM-Man. Changes/ Speculation)

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

All true.

That entire series is still eating at my soul.

[MFS62]

Edgy DC wrote: The real failure there was the umps, and maybe Robinson not making the bold stroke of superseding them and ordering an ejection.

As I remember Robby, he would not have let it pass if he had been the player involved.

Later

[Frayed Knot]

So when Olberman says that Abbott "had never faced Rivera or even seen his cutter" it looks like he meant other than the double he smacked off him 24 hours earlier.
And even that is above and beyond the idiotic notion that this non-PH move somehow qualifies as one of the worst decisions in history and therefore taints the career of Valentine for all time to come.

Yeah, that's some mighty fine research and perspective there ace!

[G-Fafif]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Meanwhile, Keith Olberman absolutely creams Valentiine, focusing on one play from the 2000 World Series. Was the call questionable? I distinctly recall questioning it myself at the time. Was it "the dumbest World Series managerial move since Casey Stengel completely messed up his 1960 pitching rotation"? Get a grip, Boston Market Boy. Didn't Abbott tag Rivera in the Timo game the night before? Geez, Olbermann is a tool sometimes.

I adore Olbermann on many levels, but that article reeks of Valentine at some point big-leaguing KO and KO never forgetting a slight. One of Keith's things when he talks about sports is alluding to "my good friend," and one of his "good friends" in the game is Terry Francona, so maybe there's that, too.

Can't fault Payton for homering, but with the bases cleared, there was no longer a rally in progress. It was Rivera for one out with a one-run lead. I wasn't loaded with confidence over Abbott (my thinking was "he got his base hit last night") and wondered what Matt Franco was doing on the roster if you weren't going to use him there, but "dumbest" move in 40 WS years? That's Chassian right there.

[Edgy MD]

And while I don't expect much more than a partisan sports column from a partisan TV host, KO is a SABR member and should know better.

Instead he starts with the conclusion and looks only at the facts that will get him there. We have enough such sportswriting in the world.

[Frayed Knot]

One more crack at Olberman (whom I happen to adore on absolutely no levels but that's besides the point here)

" ... when Jay Payton walloped a massive three-run bomb off Mo and all of a sudden the Yankees� insurmountable 6-0 lead was now a 6-5 heart-stopper"

Am I off here in remembering JayPay's HR as a typical YSII special, aka: one which snuck over the RF fence some 300-plus-very-few feet away making KO's above description simply another example of him playing fast and loose with the facts in this story?

[G-Fafif]

One more crack at Olberman (whom I happen to adore on absolutely no levels but that's besides the point here) " ... when Jay Payton walloped a massive three-run bomb off Mo and all of a sudden the Yankees� insurmountable 6-0 lead was now a 6-5 heart-stopper" Am I off here in remembering JayPay's HR as a typical YSII special, aka: one which snuck over the RF fence some 300-plus-very-few feet away making KO's above description simply another example of him playing fast and loose with the facts in this story?

Not walloped except that "walloped" is a fun word. Massive only in that it made the score close. Bomb...no, not really.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Between Olbermann's article and what it's forced us to rehash, this has been the WORST RECOLLECTION IN THE WORLD.

[G-Fafif]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Between Olbermann's article and what it's forced us to rehash, this has been the WORST RECOLLECTION IN THE WORLD.

Now that's what I call a Special Comment.

[Edgy MD]

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Spotted grazing on Boston Common.

[G-Fafif]

DVR Alert (or just watch): Monday night, 9 o'clock, Bobby V with Bob Costas on MLB Network. Good old days to be discussed in addition to whatever our former skipper is doing now.

[metirish]

G-Fafif wrote: DVR Alert (or just watch): Monday night, 9 o'clock, Bobby V with Bob Costas on MLB Network. Good old days to be discussed in addition to whatever our former skipper is doing now.

@MLBNetwork Close
Valentine on Rickey Henderson not running balls out: "The third time he did that in a Mets uniform was the last time" #Studio42 at 9pE

the third time in the third voice?

[metirish]

Love Valentine but for fucks sake Costas spent half the show trying to put down that moneyball nonsense, had to laugh at how he kept looking for Valentine's agreement in his view of moneyball.

[metirish]

Noting shocking in this interview but............Costas pressed Bobby on the likelihood that Red Sox Front Office types and ownership like to make "suggestions" to the manager on his line up card....."that happened with the Rangers, it happened with the Mets, Steve Phillips would do it......even Fred Wilpon did it a few times, it's nothing new and for the most part I took on those suggestions, hey how about hinting this guy 6 or 4, sometimes I was looking for answers and they can come from anywhere".....paraphrasing there but that was the gist....it's nothing new Bob.

[Guest Mets � Willets Point]

Happy Bobby Valentine's Day!

[G-Fafif]

Hearing Bobby say, "It's not the team with the best players, it's the team that plays best," got me all warm and tingly. Vintage Bobby-ing. And his immediate reaction to losing Game Six in 1999 was the same as mine, except he threw himself onto the floor of his office bathroom and I settled for the living room carpet.

His retelling of the Rickey-Olerud "I used to play with a guy who wore a helmet" story, even as it's acknowledged as apocryphal, was all messed up. He had it taking place in Mariner Spring Traning, which would be fine, except they were never in Mariner Spring Training together. Like Keith, Bobby's timelines get a little screwed up...but guys like them are busy being guys like them. It's guys like me who don't do anything worth talking about except fact-check.

[Vic Sage]

"It's not the team with the best players, it's the team that plays best,"

yes, the race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.

[G-Fafif]

Bill Pennington of the Times on how Bobby V, out of baseball as a player, bounced back into the game -- partly by turning down George Steinbrenner.

Valentine reconnected with professional baseball in the early 1980s, he said, completely by accident. Attending another dinner function, this one the annual New York baseball writers� affair, Valentine ran into a San Diego Padres executive who asked him to tutor minor league infielders. �I was going to be a roving instructor for $10,000,� Valentine said. �I would make eight or nine trips a year. If I had a traditional job, maybe I couldn�t have done that. But with the restaurant I could get away. So I did it.� A year later, he was at the Stamford muscular dystrophy dinner again and ran into Lou Gorman, then a Mets vice president for player personnel. Gorman, like everyone else, asked Valentine what he was doing with himself. Valentine talked about the restaurant and his role with the Padres. �I told Lou that I liked working with the minor leaguers but that the Padres� farm teams were kind of far away from Stamford,� Valentine said. Gorman told Valentine he could have the same job with the Mets, and he would travel for the most part in the eastern United States. So Valentine became a part-time Mets employee. In 1983, the Dodgers had an opening on their coaching staff. Dodgers Manager Tommy Lasorda, who had been Valentine�s minor league manager in the Pacific Coast League, told his bosses to offer Valentine the job. As a courtesy, the Dodgers called the Mets to ask permission to speak to Valentine, and Gorman took the call. Laughing last week as he told the story, Valentine said: �And Lou says that I can�t be a coach for the Padres� big club because I�m going to coach in New York for the Mets. Actually, it had never been discussed, but that�s how I ended up on the Mets staff the next season. �I�m telling you, it�s all luck.�

[Edgy MD]

Valentine or Pennington or the Times editor or I (as reader) seem to have blown it in the next-to-last paragraph, saying "Padres" when he seems to mean "Dodgers."