Dead Tradeline 2011

[ashie62]

To me, the opportunity for the Mets to extricate themselves from Rodriguez was truly a gift from God.

The San Francisco Giants have a young highly regarded corner OF named Brandon Belt. If Beltran were headed to the left coast thats who I want.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, you suggested the "crap" was a matter of fact, as if it's a question of whether they're crap that's worth it or crap that isn't, but they will be crap under any circumstances.

And the "players" in a trade are the men (and presumably women) making the trade.

[Chad ochoseis]

The Indians aren't limiting themselves to small-budget options

Northeastern Ohio is beautiful this time of year. And the Indians are in a serious fight for the AL Central even without their starting RF, who is out for the season with a thumb injury.

They've got 2B Jason Kipnis to give in return for Beltran. My Indians fan buddy says we can't have him. But, fortunately, he's not the Indians' GM.

[Ceetar]

Chad Ochoseis wrote: The Indians aren't limiting themselves to small-budget options Northeastern Ohio is beautiful this time of year. And the Indians are in a serious fight for the AL Central even without their starting RF, who is out for the season with a thumb injury. They've got 2B Jason Kipnis to give in return for Beltran. My Indians fan buddy says we can't have him. But, fortunately, he's not the Indians' GM.

This reminds me of something, and it probably is more an offseason thing than a tradeline thing, but say they did get Kipnis. Where do Murphy and Turner go?

Same argument if they get an OF guy back. We've got a fair amount of those messing around in the high-minors. Is a trade where we GET major league talent on the horizon?

[ashie62]

Sandy wouldn't trade anyone for crap, would he?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ceetar wrote: Is a trade where we GET major league talent on the horizon?

See this sort of sarcasm is what I'm talking about? It's kind of stunning. What is it about? "Major talent"? I know we're not going to get Walter Johnson, but....

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Ceetar wrote: Is a trade where we GET major league talent on the horizon? See this sort of sarcasm is what I'm talking about? It's kind of stunning. What is it about? "Major talent"? I know we're not going to get Walter Johnson, but....

Now you're just being difficult.

Established major league player that's significantly above replacement for prospects/excess instead of established major league veteran for prospects/depth. A good percentage of trades are where one team is trading a established guy that makes the other team better, for prospects and depth chart guys. I wouldn't say it's impossible that we trade Carlos Beltran for Hiroki Kuroda, but it seems like we're talking about trading him for futures. I'm merely talking about the possibility of something going the other direction.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

Ceetar wrote: I wouldn't say it's impossible that we trade Carlos Beltran for Hiroki Kuroda...

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say it's impossible that we trade Carlos Beltran to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Hiroki Kuroda. I will LITERALLY go out on a limb and stake, say, my left hand on it.

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Ceetar wrote: I wouldn't say it's impossible that we trade Carlos Beltran for Hiroki Kuroda... I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say it's impossible that we trade Carlos Beltran to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Hiroki Kuroda. I will LITERALLY go out on a limb and stake, say, my left hand on it.

How about Jeremy Guthrie?

(not happening, I just saw someone tweet that he could get traded this year)

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ceetar wrote: Ceetar wrote: Is a trade where we GET major league talent on the horizon? See this sort of sarcasm is what I'm talking about? It's kind of stunning. What is it about? "Major talent"? I know we're not going to get Walter Johnson, but.... Now you're just being difficult. Established major league player that's significantly above replacement for prospects/excess instead of established major league veteran for prospects/depth. A good percentage of trades are where one team is trading a established guy that makes the other team better, for prospects and depth chart guys. I wouldn't say it's impossible that we trade Carlos Beltran for Hiroki Kuroda, but it seems like we're talking about trading him for futures. I'm merely talking about the possibility of something going the other direction.

I don't think I'm being difficult at all. I truly don't get the sarcasm. The Mets have made a tremendous amount of trades of prospects for established veterans in the last decade. Some in the offseason like the package for Alomar, and some as the deadline approached like trading Evan MacLane for Shawn Green.

We all know that if Carlos Beltran is going, it will be in a trade for developing talent, because if you want a table-ready dish for the final two months, you'd find it hard to do better than Beltran himself. That won't surprise anybody, because that's how those trades work. But if it must happen, it's not unthinkable that it could work well, is it?

[Guest attgig]

Ashie62 wrote: The San Francisco Giants have a young highly regarded corner OF named Brandon Belt. If Beltran were headed to the left coast thats who I want.

Chad Ochoseis wrote: They've got 2B Jason Kipnis to give in return for Beltran. My Indians fan buddy says we can't have him. But, fortunately, he's not the Indians' GM.

either is fine, but I would be surprised if we can get either. We'd have to pretty much pay Beltran's salary to get Kipnis (indians have no $ flexibility), and the giants don't need our money that bad to offer Belt even if we're paying the whole thing.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'd only trade Beltran for Belt if they agreed to throw in Ran.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Is a trade where we GET major league talent on the horizon? See this sort of sarcasm is what I'm talking about? It's kind of stunning. What is it about? "Major talent"? I know we're not going to get Walter Johnson, but.... Now you're just being difficult. Established major league player that's significantly above replacement for prospects/excess instead of established major league veteran for prospects/depth. A good percentage of trades are where one team is trading a established guy that makes the other team better, for prospects and depth chart guys. I wouldn't say it's impossible that we trade Carlos Beltran for Hiroki Kuroda, but it seems like we're talking about trading him for futures. I'm merely talking about the possibility of something going the other direction. I don't think I'm being difficult at all. I truly don't get the sarcasm. The Mets have made a tremendous amount of trades of prospects for established veterans in the last decade. Some in the offseason like the package for Alomar, and some as the deadline approached like trading Evan MacLane for Shawn Green. We all know that if Carlos Beltran is going, it will be in a trade for developing talent. That won't surprise anybody, because that's how those trades work. If they must happen, it's not unthinkable that it could work well, is it?

I'm pretty sure i didn't suggest it couldn't work well. I feel like you're upset that i used the word 'crap'. Perhaps that's too ambigious, becuase I think the problem is you're assuming I'm saying something much worse than I actually am.

crapshoot? longshot? low-impact player? just stick with the generic prospect?

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I like that Alderson's aiming high. I really do.

But if he-- or any of you-- think that he's bringing home a cost-controlled blue-chipper for a 1/3 of a season of a right fielder who's worthless come October, then you're ACTUALLY high.

Also, why on EARTH would the Mets aim for a right-now upgrade, Cee, when they're moving a right-now asset? If they're playing for this year, they're holding onto Beltran. If they're moving him, they're not aiming for Pelfrey II or a bullpen upgrade, dig?

[Ceetar]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I like that Alderson's aiming high. I really do. But if he-- or any of you-- think that he's bringing home a cost-controlled blue-chipper for a 1/3 of a season of a right fielder who's worthless come October, then you're ACTUALLY high. Also, why on EARTH would the Mets aim for a right-now upgrade, Cee, when they're moving a right-now asset? If they're playing for this year, they're holding onto Beltran. If they're moving him, they're not aiming for Pelfrey II or a bullpen upgrade, dig?

I was more referring to guys like Justin Turner and Daniel Murphy. and Tejada. presumably one guy holds down 2B, Wright, Reyes, Ike. That's excess. Probably more of an offseason thing, but if the Mets fall out of it and see an opportunity to get a good pitcher with a couple of years left?

[Guest attgig]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: But if he-- or any of you-- think that he's bringing home a cost-controlled blue-chipper for a 1/3 of a season of a right fielder who's worthless come October, then you're ACTUALLY high.

yeah, he struck out that one time... but its unfair to characterize him as worthless come october...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrca01.shtml

great post season numbers overall (obviously skewed by the time on the astros), but even his 07 post season numbers were pretty good. (978 ops)

[Guest attgig]

Ceetar wrote: I was more referring to guys like Justin Turner and Daniel Murphy. and Tejada. presumably one guy holds down 2B, Wright, Reyes, Ike. That's excess. Probably more of an offseason thing, but if the Mets fall out of it and see an opportunity to get a good pitcher with a couple of years left?

but the names that you're throwing out there are from teams who are out of it and are looking to dump payroll to get prospects. the dodgers and o's aren't looking to add someone that they'll have to pay a lot and then lose for nothing next year. they're building for the future.

[Ceetar]

attgig wrote: But if he-- or any of you-- think that he's bringing home a cost-controlled blue-chipper for a 1/3 of a season of a right fielder who's worthless come October, then you're ACTUALLY high. yeah, he struck out that one time... but its unfair to characterize him as worthless come october... http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrca01.shtml great post season numbers overall (obviously skewed by the time on the astros), but even his 07 post season numbers were pretty good. (978 ops)

you mean '06 no? he's got a 1.3 OPS in the postseason over 22 games.

but I think he meant worthless come November.

[Guest attgig]

Ceetar wrote: But if he-- or any of you-- think that he's bringing home a cost-controlled blue-chipper for a 1/3 of a season of a right fielder who's worthless come October, then you're ACTUALLY high. yeah, he struck out that one time... but its unfair to characterize him as worthless come october... http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrca01.shtml great post season numbers overall (obviously skewed by the time on the astros), but even his 07 post season numbers were pretty good. (978 ops) you mean '06 no? he's got a 1.3 OPS in the postseason over 22 games. but I think he meant worthless come November.

ooops. i meant '06. let's not talk about '07 again.

and that 1.3 ops is with the astros as well and that sick series. the 978 ops was only in '06. so, even if we throw out the astros series, he was still pretty awesome in '06 post season, except for that last pitch...

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

I wasn't denigrating his postseason work; I meant November. (As in, "He's inferior to most 'pennant-run' rentals as a commodity-- thanks to Omar and the no-arb clause-- because he's ONLY worth what he gives you on-field right now.")

[Chad ochoseis]

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: I wasn't denigrating his postseason work; I meant November. (As in, "He's inferior to most 'pennant-run' rentals as a commodity-- thanks to Omar and the no-arb clause-- because he's ONLY worth what he gives you on-field right now.")

I'm not going to call Omar or any of the other schmucks in Met management to task for this one. The sides negotiated, they agreed on $17M per year for seven years plus a no-arb clause, Beltran got rich, and we got the best CF of the decade. I'd make this deal again, even with the no-arb clause at the end.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Rockies' trade deadline chip Jason Giambi pulled up with a strained hammy on an infield grounder last night. On one hand, that swings the market toward the remaining sellers that much more. On the other, it's a cautionary tale for sellers to move their players before they, too, come up hurt.

Cubs --- specifically Carlos Pe�a and Aramis Ramirez --- look to be dumping liberally.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: Rockies' trade deadline chip Jason Giambi pulled up with a strained hammy on an infield grounder last night. On one hand, that swings the market toward the remaining sellers that much more. On the other, it's a cautionary tale for sellers to move their players before they, too, come up hurt. Cubs --- specifically Carlos Pe�a and Aramis Ramirez --- look to be dumping liberally.

Pena basically sucks. Ramirez could be interesting though, I've always liked him. Obviously not for the Mets, but couldbe interesting to see where he goes.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Was worried for a moment last nite that we'd lose our chance to deal Izzy.

[Guest Edgy DC]

When he contorted himself to keep from crushing Murphy's skull?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

During my intermittent radio coverage Wayne Hagin told me Izzy was hurt.

[Guest LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Was worried for a moment last nite that we'd lose our chance to deal Izzy.

I don't think that's happening. The righty reliever market being clogged and whatnot, what are the Mets likely to get for a fragile, non-dominant 38-year-old version?

Now, Byrdak? Mebbe.

[ashie62]

Renting out Beltran is going to return so little why not keep him for the fans and tell the other teams to fuck off.

[Guest themetfairy]

Ashie62 wrote: Renting out Beltran is going to return so little why not keep him for the fans and tell the other teams to fuck off.

I agree.

[Ceetar]

wait, why did the Nats trade for Gomes?