Draining the Citi Field swamp

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

This stuff about Charlie Samuels -- if true -- is sickening but hardly surprising considering all the crap that has apparently gone on over the years.

Seems to me like they need to change a lot more than the general manager and manager. How do you set in place an entire culture change?

If the allegations against Samuels are true, it's hard to believe no one else working in that environment was aware of what was happening. Would anyone be surprised if this probe uncovered more employees? I almost want to see them purge the whole freaking place and start fresh.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Including the players? All of them. Because I imagine not a few of them looked the other way.

[soupcan]

Maybe this whole thing is a big reason why Selig/MLB was pushing Alderson hard for the job.

"The Mets need cleanin' up and we got just the guy to do it..."

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Edgy DC wrote: Including the players? All of them. Because I imagine not a few of them looked the other way.

I was thinking the non-playing personnel. I'm just tired of this crap. All of it.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well the way to change your culture is to start at the top, where the new management isn't bound by loyalties.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

I don't think clubbies dealing roids, staying a step ahead of the IRS and pinching memorabilia for $$ on the side is limited to the Mets.

[RealityChuck]

Why and how would anyone on the team know?

[metirish]

What the Mets need is some Tea Party folks(they are always folks) to change the culture there.....

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

Edgy DC wrote: Well the way to change your culture is to start at the top, where the new management isn't bound by loyalties.

Who is "the top" other than the Wilpons? Because they're not going anywhere. But they certainly need to get a handle on all this nonsense.

[TransMonk]

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I don't think clubbies dealing roids, staying a step ahead of the IRS and pinching memorabilia for $$ on the side is limited to the Mets.

Or a few teams...I would guess they are all doing it to some degree or another.

[Guest metsguyinmichigan]

TransMonk wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I don't think clubbies dealing roids, staying a step ahead of the IRS and pinching memorabilia for $$ on the side is limited to the Mets. Or a few teams...I would guess they are all doing it to some degree or another.

But that sounds like you're making excuses. It's the Mets' staff, and they have to take care of their own people.

[Valadius]

I'm betting John Franco knew exactly what was going on.

[Guest Edgy DC]

RealityChuck wrote: Why and how would anyone on the team know?

Because they work in close proximity, they're loaded, they're morally vulnerable, and his access to them is golden in the racket he has going.

[Benjamin Grimm]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Because they're not going anywhere. But they certainly need to get a handle on all this nonsense.

Well, they've apparently been conducting an investigation and it led to the suspension of the clubhouse guy. Doesn't exactly sound like they've been keeping their heads in the sand.

[Guest Edgy DC]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Well the way to change your culture is to start at the top, where the new management isn't bound by loyalties. Who is "the top" other than the Wilpons? Because they're not going anywhere. But they certainly need to get a handle on all this nonsense.

I tried to imply pretty clearly that I was referring to the change from one GM to another.

metsguyinmichigan wrote: TransMonk wrote: John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: I don't think clubbies dealing roids, staying a step ahead of the IRS and pinching memorabilia for $$ on the side is limited to the Mets. Or a few teams...I would guess they are all doing it to some degree or another. But that sounds like you're making excuses. It's the Mets' staff, and they have to take care of their own people.

Apparently, that's what they're doing, isn't it?

[ashie62]

Edgy DC wrote: RealityChuck wrote: Why and how would anyone on the team know? Because they work in close proximity, they're loaded, they're morally vulnerable, and his access to them is golden in the racket he has going.

The language of gambling is unique and sometimes fraternal. Those involved who hear that language from another may be inclined to let it be know they are gamblers also.

[G-Fafif]

metirish wrote: What the Mets need is some Tea Party folks(they are always folks) to change the culture there.....

Sharron Angle's available. She'll let us know what she'll do for the Mets as soon as they hire her.

[RealityChuck]

Edgy DC wrote: RealityChuck wrote: Why and how would anyone on the team know? Because they work in close proximity, they're loaded, they're morally vulnerable, and his access to them is golden in the racket he has going.

You haven't answered the question.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I have. There's a couple of whys and at least one how in there.

[ashie62]

RealityChuck wrote: RealityChuck wrote: Why and how would anyone on the team know? Because they work in close proximity, they're loaded, they're morally vulnerable, and his access to them is golden in the racket he has going. You haven't answered the question.

Uh yes he has. Opportunity, access, comraderie, illness, people gamble.

Doesn't take much for Samuels to find out who has a sore arm in the clubhouse. Some vulnerable player may know Charlie gambles and asks to use his "agent." Agents tend to show up on Fridays, ask Loduca.

[RealityChuck]

Ashie62 wrote: RealityChuck wrote: RealityChuck wrote: Why and how would anyone on the team know? Because they work in close proximity, they're loaded, they're morally vulnerable, and his access to them is golden in the racket he has going. You haven't answered the question. Uh yes he has. Opportunity, access, comraderie, illness, people gamble. Doesn't take much for Samuels to find out who has a sore arm in the clubhouse. Some vulnerable player may know Charlie gambles and asks to use his "agent." Agents tend to show up on Fridays, ask Loduca.

That's not what I was asking. Certainly Samuels knew what he was doing, and knew inside information he could use, but why would anyone on the team know he was gambling? Did he put up a sign that says "Place your bets"? Did he say, "I owe a lot to the money to gangsters, so are you feeling bad today?" Did he make calls from a phone in a public place?

Assuming Samuels wasn't a complete idiot (and if he were, he would have been discovered immediately), he would not have mentioned anything about betting once he entered the clubhouse. Note that he was suspended as soon as an investigation found evidence. Note, too, that no one has claimed that any of the players made bets. You can be sure that there would have been an immediate suspension -- called for by the Commissioner's office, not the Wilpons -- of any player whose name appeared on the evidence that led to Samuels.

Also, people who have gambling problems are good at hiding it. I've seen it happen before -- someone who you'd never suspect turns out to be deeply in debt for gambling and breaks the law to finance his habit. But they never come out and say, "I like to be a lot" of give outsiders -- even their own family -- clues about what they are doing until things crash down.

I knew someone who got in trouble for gambling, and no one who knew him even suspected he was gambling at all. He never talked about betting and never showed the slightest interest in horse racing until it was discovered he was using the company credit card to pay for his losses on an OTB Phone Betting account. I have no doubt that Samuels could have been equally adept at keeping people in the dark.

So how would anyone know he was betting or having a gambling problem?

[Guest Edgy DC]

This is ridiculous. How would any of us know anything? Do we want to get lost in semantics on such a basic question. Suffice to say there's plenty I don't know about my co-workers, but I know plenty more about them than you do.

I mean we're talking about the word "would." If somebody asks me, "How would that guy know what was up with that other guy?" I have no problem answering, "He may know and he may not know, but the way he would know, if he does, is perhaps that they work together."

"So how would anyone know he was betting or having a gambling problem?" you ask. I can think of 100 possiblitities. The report has him embezzling from the organization, skimming on orders, and stealing equipment from the locker room. His act clearly spun out of control. When these things happen, guys in close proximity sometimes pick up on it.

I guess we use the English language differently.

[ashie62]

The rent is too damn high!