Who Gives a Crap?

[Elster88]

The All-Purpose "Are They Really Pretending That Stat is a Big Deal?" Thread.

Here's one that I've seen a couple of times since Soler's callup was announced...but nymets.com is now actually calling it "historic".

In no other season of their last 20 have the Mets used a ninth starting pitcher before their 65th game.

[Guest sharpie]

Albert Pujols being the fastest to hit 19 home runs was pretty silly.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Well, it is meaningful, just not definitively so, as long as you don't make too much of it, which apparently nymets.com did.

1) It's not like the 1965 Mets (or many of their cousins) considered themselves set in the rotation. They just threw the same guys out there for a lack of belief that they had any options.

2) Through 1967 or so, they'd have been working with four-man rootations.

3) (This one is most important.) It's not like virtually the whole intended rotation has been displaced like in 1987. We've just turned over the back end a few times. That's not good, mind you.

4) You can enter the season with all yoiur best pitchers hurt from the year before or from the offseason or from spring, maintain an ugly stability for the first quarter season, and look better, by this statisttic (or statisticky thing), than the team that had the back end of their rotation come up hurt after the season started.

[MFS62]

The NL pitcher who sees the oppposing pitcher come to bat against him twice in the first inning is having a bad day.

LAter

[RealityChuck]

MFS62 wrote: The NL pitcher who sees the oppposing pitcher come to bat against him twice in the first inning is having a bad day.

If he sees him bat once, it's a bad day. Twice isn't going to happen -- he'll be pulled by then.

[metirish]

Do we really need to see that a hitter is 1 for 3 lifetime against the pitcher he's facing, or 2 for 5 for that matter......I mean those two hits coulda been game winning hits but for the most part probably not.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Back in the day I tried to drum up interest in a Metfan faction against misusing and overapplying statistics (small sample sizes, mistakenly believing they have predictive values when they don't, advocating managing games by such ideas as L-R splits, etc, etc etc).

Named for our loveable pitcher of the time, MASATO:

Metfans
Against
Statistical
And
Tactical
Overkill

[Elster88]

="Edgy DC"]Well, it is meaningful, just not definitively so, as long as you don't make too much of it, which apparently nymets.com did. 1) It's not like the 1965 Mets (or many of their cousins) considered themselves set in the rotation. They just threw the same guys out there for a lack of belief that they had any options. 2) Through 1967 or so, they'd have been working with four-man rootations. 3) (This one is most important.) It's not like virtually the whole intended rotation has been displaced like in 1987. We've just turned over the back end a few times. That's not good, mind you. 4) You can enter the season with all yoiur best pitchers hurt from the year before or from the offseason or from spring, maintain an ugly stability for the first quarter season, and look better, by this statisttic (or statisticky thing), than the team that had the back end of their rotation come up hurt after the season started.

I think you missed my point completely. If they had said all of what you did, it would've been meaningful.

But instead they told us it was the only season of their last 20 have the Mets used a ninth starting pitcher before their 65th game.

So my response to that is:

In how many seasons out of the past 17 did they use seven starting pitchers before their 38th game?

And when in the past 26 seasons did they use ten starting pitchers by their 73rd game?

(Actually, my response is "Who gives a crap?")

[Guest Bret Sabermetric]

40% Bran works for me.

[Guest Edgy DC]

I didn't miss your point, just extending the thought, even though I brought the sixties teams into it, which aren't referenced in the reporting of the "historical" stat.

[RealityChuck]

But isn't the number of pitchers really irrelevant? What's important is the team's record, and whether they do it with 7 pitchers or 15 is meaningless.

[Elster88]

I think this one is cool and actually do give a crap...I just didn't know where else to put it.

]Two years ago, Ken Griffey Jr. hit his 500th home run at old Busch Stadium. His first game at new Busch was pretty memorable, too. Griffey hit a go-ahead three-run homer off Jason Isringhausen in the ninth inning after tying a major league record by homering in his 43rd stadium earlier in the game, leading the Cincinnati Reds past the St. Louis Cardinals 8-7 Monday night.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

FORTY-THREE?

Holy cow, that's a lot. There's really been a lot of ballpark turnover, hasn't there?

I wonder, can he extend that record? Are there any current parks he hasn't homered in?

[MFS62]

F'n reporters. Who's record did he tie?
I hat it when they do that.

Later

[Elster88]

I just found it in the AP report of the game. There were no more details in it.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Are there any current parks he hasn't homered in?

I guess New RFK is the next in the pipeline, followed by new Shea and New Yankee.

[Elster88]

Did he miss any of the newest AL parks?

[Guest Edgy DC]

He has homered at RFK.

Two Missed Opportunities:
He never homered (in eight games and 35 plate appearances) at the old Comiskey. He had nine hits, including a triple, there.

He never homered (in one game and four plate appearances) at Exhibition Stadium. He had one hits, a double, there.

Joel Zumaya

Entering this season he had never homered at Detroit's Comerica Park (or whatever they call it.) He had only one hit in 14 plate appearances there. In perhaps his last series there this season, he hit a grand slam off of Joel Zumaya on May 20th. The Reds lost anyhow.

[Guest sharpie]

Reds should go to Japan or Puerto Rico or something to start next season so that Griffey can set the record.

(on edit): When are the 2005 player rankings going to happen. How long do we pretend that Jae Seo wasn't on the Mets last season? He also pitched one inning in '02.

[metirish]

Griffey could be a MFY by the trade deadline Sharpie.

[Elster88]

Did anyone figure out who he tied? It must be another current or fairly recently retired player. Bonds didn't spend time in the AL, ditto for Raffy and Canseco in the NL. Sosa didn't start taking steroids until he was a Cub.

McGwire?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Good guess, but I count 39 for McGwire.

[MFS62]

I think I read a while ago that Dave Winfield held the record. He played in some of the older parks that were torn down before Griffey came up to the majors, so the lists are different.

Later

[Elster88]

Ohhh. Good one. But you should've taken credit for it instead of saying you read it.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Not Winnie. Nor is it Eddie Murray nor Rusty Staub.

I've got the answer if anybody wants to keep guessing.

[Elster88]

Frank Robinson?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Not Frank.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Is it Twenty Questions time?

Was he active in the 2000 season?

[metirish]

Willie Mays or Mike Schmidt?

[Guest Edgy DC]

Um, OK, but it'll probably take far fewer than 20.

irish, no and no.