Keith's Big Mouth

[G-Fafif]

I found it telling that when the camera picked up the world's best known massage therapist that Gary Cohen assumed she was part of the military salute (or maybe won a contest). Kelly Calabrese was wearing the Padre uniform of the night. When was the last you saw a trainer in full-out team regalia? They usually have on golf shirts and jackets that are not the same as those worn by the players. I've since seen wire service photos that show Ms. Calabrese in that sort of professional garb. I'm guessing if she had been sitting there dressed like a trainer, the "shock" value would have been limited.

Chronological age (Keith's 52) as much as background contributed to Hernandez's reaction. The crack about "I'm not saying women belong in the kitchen" came from the late '60s/early '70s battles over women's lib and the other ERA. Who seriously thinks in those terms anymore? While I wouldn't dare attribute straight, down-the-line enlightenment to today's younger players, the "women belong in the kitchen" line has pretty much gone the way of "Astroturf is the wave of the future." I doubt the kids whose debuts are three decades removed from Hernandez's have come across it except in their social studies texts (if they got that far into it before being excused from class for baseball practice).

More than Keith's old-schooledness attitudes, his Kelly Calabrese moment revealed along with his procilivity for referencing George Hendrick, et al that he is one of those people who more or less stopped growing as a person or at least paying attention a long time ago. (Same guy who was always being lauded for being a veritable Civil War historian and crossword fiend when he played). I thought the charming stories of '86 would be sprinkled in here and there as the season went on. Seems a broadcast doesn't go by without Game 6 in Houston coming up, albeit sometimes as softballs from Gary, but often because that's what Keith relates to. I love hearing about the old days as much as the next antiquated fan, but it strikes me that it hasn't occurred to Keith (or anybody who directs him) that he'd be well served by expanding his frame of reference. Sure, Ralph Kiner would bring up Branch Rickey frequently but he never seemed at a loss for anything that had happened since; he understood he played a long time ago and that kids care more about now than then. Keith actually referred to Willie as "Davey" the other night. I don't think Keith quite grasps that baseball went on between his heyday at 7:10 any given night.

All that said, I adore him to death. I love the way he explains what pitch is coming next and why it's coming next. I love his lack of a self-censor. I love that he is far from polished. I love that he's not Fran Healy.

[Guest Edgy DC]

True, true, and true. I just want to see him do enough of the homework so I still love him in 2009 and 2010.

I loved Seaver for a bit there also.

A briefer bit, maybe.

[G-Fafif]

Edgy DC wrote: I loved Seaver for a bit there also. A briefer bit, maybe.

Tom suffered from the same generational disconnect as Keith. Maybe that's a superstar thing. Tim McCarver never sounded out-of-touch with the modern day. Nor did, for all his myriad drawbacks, Fran. Maybe it's because both men went from the field to the booth.

I'd hoped Seaver would continue to pop in to Mets broadcasts every now and then, such as on this trip which is (presumably) geographically convenient for him. He knows him some pitching and he's Tom Seaver. I hated his estrangement from the organization and I don't want that to flare up again.

Perhaps gods should be at remove from their dominion more often than not. Having Seaver be a mediocre broadcaster kind of took the excitement out of those occasions when he would take the field as a legend to address us adoring masses or toss out a first ball. New rule: Stay on good terms with us mortals but don't be in our face (which I guess is no longer a problem where T. Terrific is concerned).

[Diamond Dad]

I was watching the game. After the home run, Keith said "is that a girl in the dugout? What's she doing there?" A fair question concerning the long blond hair spilling out from the Padres cap. She was in uniform and looked like someone sneaking into the dugout.

If he had left it at that, no problem. His attempts to go beyond that were stupid, but I'm sure truthful. So, he's "old school" and thinks that a woman's place is in the trainer's room (on the massage table) or back in the hotel bar, but not on the bench during the game. He's a guy. Duh. Don't blow this up beyond what it really was.




P.S. -- that Keith Hernandez telephone call dialogue sounded very familiar --- Hmm -- the name Elaine Benes comes to mind . . .

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Perhaps gods should be at remove from their dominion more often than not.

Good thesis.

I'm however lost among these "He's a guy" and "Boys will be boys" comments. How broad is the list of behaviors I'm excused from if I have a thingie?

[Frayed Knot]

I suspect (or maybe just hope) that Keith's knowledge of, and therefore his references to, current MLB players and trends will update themselves as he does games semi-regularly from here on in. His problem coming in - and Seaver's also to an even greater extent - was that they weren't immersed in day-to-day baseball when only working part-time. He's making the effort fom what I can tell; he's talking to the coaches (unless he's lying about it) and gethering info about the who's hot/who's not kinda stuff so perhaps the mid-'80s flashbacks will start to decrease.

I echo Vic's comments (from the other thread) on McCarver.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Me too on Tim McCarver.

How many games per season has Keith been doing prior to this year?

[Frayed Knot]

He's really just been the occasional fill-in prior to this.
Maybe 40/year at most? Fewers still when he was first starting.

[Guest OlerudOwned]

http://www.progressiveboink.com/dugout/archive/jon36.html

"I'm not going to say that cutlery sets belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout."

[Guest silverdsl]

I'm weighing in very late on this one but I have to say I'm a bit surprised that so many are willing to give Hernandez a pass on this. I do like him as a broadcaster but I was appalled by his remarks. It's not that he took note of her presence in the dugout - that is something unusual. It's the way he reacted and that he made the "women don't belong in the dugout" comment even after he found out that she was part of the team's training staff. I just don't feel comfortable with that kind of attitude. It makes me wonder what he feels about the overall subject of women in baseball and how he feels about female GMs for example.

I am admittedly sensitive on this kind of issue because while I don't work in sports I've been harassed a lot simply for being a female sports fan. There are men who question women as fans, let alone if they are part of a team's training staff.

[Frayed Knot]

I don't think that the 'they don't belong in the dugout' automatically equates to an attitude of 'they shouldn't be in the front office either'.
Players tend to think of the dugout as "their" place, a place like an executives' only lunch room where one needs to earn their way in and not get a pass due to connections and I suspect his first reaction was that she was in there as a favor to someone or via some misguided affirmative action thing. It's more of an elitist/privilege attitude really than it was some outdated notion of roles. That he phrased his objections horribly and dug himself a bit deeper each time he tried to slither out meant he pretty much deserved to shitstorm that came down on him afterward - although there's still some question as to why a masseuse needs to be in the dugout - in uniform? - high-fiving the guys as the come in the dugout. There are rules as to who and how many "extras" can be there and having some (3rd? or 4th?) member of the training staff in there looking somewhat like a mascot/batgirl was bound to raise a few eyebrows.

I think there's a middle ground between 'giving him a pass' and demanding that he quickly be canned. Not calling for the latter doesn't neccesarily mean you're doing the former.

[seawolf17]

Keith Hernandez Narrowing Down List Of Places Women Do And Don't Belong

[Guest Edgy DC]

I haven't heard many, if any, calls for a resignation. But, of course, I keep my distance from sports radio.

Here's to not opining on things as soon as your eyebrows go up.

[Frayed Knot]

"I haven't heard many, if any, calls for a resignation"

Several print reports called for his firing.

[Guest Edgy DC]

From whom, though?

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Keith just had 11 consecutive days as the number 1 lookup on the Ultimate Mets Database, falling just short of the record 13 that Doc Gooden had last August/September. The 11 is a tie for second best streak, with Lee Mazzilli (October 2003) and Tug McGraw (January 2004).

I think there may have been a method behind Keith's madness. He knew that his "girl in the dugout" comment would get him clicks. This time around, Mike Piazza played the part of Gene Garber, ending the streak yesterday.

[Guest cooby]

What do suppose the point of that is? Looking up Keith?

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

I guess the publicity triggers searches on his name, and the searches lead to clicks.