Ceetar

Edgy MD wrote: Being sarcastic and snotty is obnoxious. Cut it out. Stop belittling my opinion and the facts I base them on then.

Edgy MD wrote: Ceetar wrote: ooh, he's fast. his only skill. How obnoxious. sometimes the truth is obnoxious.

ooh, he's fast. his only skill. his 80% SB rate last year was nice, but the ,hopeful, addition of the power of Granderson and C. Young negates the SB value a bit. And if we're going to bring in stolen bases, might as well bring in defense and Tejada's passable at SS whereas Young would likely be bad. It's not as simple as plugging in a guy that's fast. I haven't argued for Tejada based on that career line, merely the potential coupled with the age and as compared to the SS options, specifically related to washed up AAA players who are already doing worse than that. I'll gladly upgrade Tejada if we can, but that's not as easy as it is to upgrade Eric Young Jr. Young can be useful. When Duda or Davis walk late in the game down a run, pinch run!

fwiw, Young's batting line with the Mets last year is basically Ruben Tejada's career line. And his 2013 numbers would've placed him near the very bottom of second basemen. It was 15/16 of qualifying left fielders and Chris Carter is only 16th because he plays LF like Lucas Duda with a little more pop and a little less walking. That "Bright spot" might have been the oncoming train.

Edgy MD wrote: None of that makes sense, sir. I strive for clarity and enlightenment, only to find out I don't understand anything. I'll simplify. No, he can't play shortstop. He can't play second base either, nor can he play left field. His role is bench outfielder, perhaps a little second if the need arises. There are also plenty of other options for this position. He's a good 25th man pinch-runner for a playoff roster.

Edgy MD wrote: ceetar wrote: ...but even some makes an already limited usefulness player into one slightly less useful." correct. This is based on data. The Mets as a whole were better at baserunning. Are you really quoting yourself for the purpose of agreeing with yourself? ceetar wrote: There ARE people suggesting Young should play second base. This threads mere existence suggests it. Who in this thread has suggested it? ceetar wrote: I mean, isn't this thread primarily to talk about Eric Young's value? isn't that what I'm doing? It seems to be clearly presented to inquire about whether he can play shortstop. yes. Am I only allowed to talk about opinions in this thread? small sample there.. Working on a false assumption.

"...but even some makes an already limited usefulness player into one slightly less useful." correct. This is based on data. The Mets as a whole were better at baserunning. This is not distorted or manipulated evidence. It's truth. There ARE people suggesting Young should play second base. This threads mere existence suggests it. I am merely pointing out that there is evidence pointing to a an organizational aim on baserunning that boosted the value of that skill for all Mets players, and Young, as the fastest, benefited the most from it and as such, his value is artificially high. I mean, isn't this thread primarily to talk about Eric Young's value? isn't that what I'm doing?

Edgy MD wrote: I like Tom Goodwin as much as anybody, but I think it's highly speculative that Young's baserunning value is entirely or even mostly a result of an easily reproducable dose of organization coaching. I don't get it. The case against Young is clear and not particularly weak. Why should we stretch so to augment it. because people suggest Young should be a regular player, therefore there's never enough evidence to put forth. The Mets WERE a much better baserunning team as a whole. Perhaps this is totally random fluctuation and luck, but I doubt it's ALL luck. And it's probably not just Goodwin, Teufel making the right calls at third base on send/stay adds value too. Besides, I'm not saying most of his value was reproducible via coaching, but even some makes an already limited usefulness player into one slightly less useful.

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: 0.9 WAR, bbRef-wise, virtually all of it with baserunning/double-play avoidance. Batting- and glove-wise, he was still below-replacement-level. Prorated over a whole season, that would be 1.5 WAR; that hypothetical season would be only the second (out of 7) in his career during which he posted ANY net-positive value above replacement-level. AND last year seemingly every Met added value with the baserunning. (6.4 for Murphy, 0.7 for Davis. ) Clearly the Mets had some sort of organizational focus there that worked out, which while doesn't negate Young's value there, but does mean that a lot of the value Young added would've be translated to the person who replaced him, supposing it was anyone but like Lucas Duda (and hell, maybe it can negate some deficiencies that have him sap almost all, or all depending how you measure, his offensive prowess?)

Frayed Knot wrote: Frayed Knot wrote: MFS62 wrote: Beltran to the Yanks (3 years) Good thing the Yanx aren't panicking over the loss of Cano. The funny thing is though, I think Carlos brings their average age down a bit. Funny, but, y'know, even in a vacuum, Beltran's deal may actually be a better one than the Granderson one. It's almost certainly a better deal for the MFYs than the Granderson deal is for the Mets, if only because of what they get from marginal wins. Maybe, but even if you guy that line of thinking it only works if Beltran stays healthy and that's not only a big if coming into the season but it becomes an even bigger if as he turns 38 then 39. Of course they can always play him at DH ... except that they already have 9 DHs on the roster! Yeah, I mean, Beltran's the better player though it's a gamble on when/if he hits a real decline, but the DH would in my mind help keep him healthy and make him the better player.. Well, what DHs do they have that they really want to play? They seem to be hoping A-Rod's not there, but really they should almost be aiming for a 50/50 3B/DH with him. They've never been concerned with Jeter's fielding anyway, and you're better off sitting him than DH. Their glut of other outfielders, Wells and Soriano and what not, are fine DHs but they're also the guys you put in RF for Beltran's DH days, which might be what they're thinking. Texiera? eh, he's probably fine at first. McCann could benefit from the DH though. My guess is it's going to be 50% Carlos, 20% Brian and 30% rotating rest. But that's only if A-Rod isn't playing.

Frayed Knot wrote: Ceetar wrote: Why does ESPN's ticker report all deals as "According to ESPN and 'media sources'" It's their way of saying that they were beaten to the story (or, at best, that they reported it no earlier than 956 other sources) but still get to credit themselves with being among the ones cited as the source of this material. Yeah, we were flipping to it at lunch during Millionaire commercials and it seemed like they waited until they had someone ESPN affiliated to talk about that they put it in the "Breaking News" section.

Why does ESPN's ticker report all deals as "According to ESPN and 'media sources'" Does that mean "yeah, other people said this and we're going to tell you about it like we're intimately involved, after we talk about Tim Tebow and tell you meaningless things about football."

metsmarathon wrote: no, sorry, leiter had the right answer. i'm just waiting for him to clarify which one it was. multiple guessing. boo. ruins everybody's fun. yeah, I figured but I didn't want to guess what he already guessed but wanted to move things along just cause. Can we go to d WAR with our metly fielders now?

Orlando Hernandez? Trying to remember if he had sucky time or just hurty time.

metsmarathon wrote: dude's got power. he's no cheap yankee stadium sham-homerun illusion. wind conditions, pitchers, etc. but yeah. My only real concern there is that it seems like he may have altered his approach in 2012 in a homer happy way that led to a not very good season despite hitting a bunch. That approach has all the makings of trouble. but I have faith that wouldn't be the case.

metsmarathon wrote: metsmarathon wrote: do you guys really need another clue after all i've given you? over the course of the mystery met hitter's career, he was lucky enough to play enough seasons to get his name on a hall of fame ballot. come time to tally the votes, he fell short of enshrinement. got so few votes, he fell off the ballot altogether, though some think his fate was a little unfair. Still holds plenty of Mets records. shush, you! my quiz, my hints. besides, i think the hall of fame ballot thing was a perfectly fine hint. its not like everys single player who plays 10 years or more gets on the ballot (is it?). he had to be quite good enough to get on there. i mean, each year, sure, there's a bit of mediocrity at the bottom fringes of it, but there's a merit thing to getting on the ballot... or am i wrong...? regardless, the answer is there just waiting for you. my bad. I don't want to be in the crosshairs when they [crossout]figure it out[/crossout] you tell them anyway.

SteveJRogers wrote: Ceetar wrote: Works for me. Wheee, offense. We shall see, if it turns out to be another Bay, or Beltran. In terms of both performance and potential way of leaving the roster if the direction of the franchise hasn't improved by about 20 wins by year 4. = I suspect it'll be somewhere in the middle of both players,but that's not really saying much.

seawolf17 wrote: Fman99 wrote: Somehow I missed earlier the news that Justin Turner had been non-tendered. I wonder how well the Cuban dude is at whacking guys in the face with pies. If that's a skill you really need, then you go back and get John Buck. pies are played out. Let's step up the game and have Curtis crack eggs over people heads instead.

Does Murphy give up 28? Granderson won't get 14 obviously. flipping that is 41, obviously no go. He wore #26 when he first got called up, but was 28 in the minors. 56? 82?

What was the last _major_ player to go from Yankees to Mets or vice-versa? Do Ventura and Benitez count?

Works for me. Wheee, offense.

Some fun stuff going on out west I guess. Poor Astros.

metsmarathon wrote: do you guys really need another clue after all i've given you? over the course of the mystery met hitter's career, he was lucky enough to play enough seasons to get his name on a hall of fame ballot. come time to tally the votes, he fell short of enshrinement. got so few votes, he fell off the ballot altogether, though some think his fate was a little unfair. Still holds plenty of Mets records.

metirish wrote: I don't think Alderson does spectacular. In his career what has been his most "spectacular" trade? I am asking because I have not a clue, but based on his personality I think he doesn't do it, does he have a history on this? He always talks about trading ..Jose Canseco? back in the day. The Pagan for Torres/Ramirez was bad, but maybe a little ballsy. But Beltran for Wheeler and the Dickey spoils were both more than anyone expected.

metsmarathon wrote: and believe me, weakening boston (both in the baseball sense and the PR sense) is a huge factor here. It's fair, but what if it means losing Cano? For a team bleeding fans, does losing your best player and signing a hated enemy bring those people back (well yeah, if they win I guess)