Edgy MD

And you wonder whatever happened to...

OK, let's see. We have five guys left: a Thirties Phillie a Phorties Phillie, a Phiphties Phillie, an Eighties Phillie who returned in the Nineties, and a Nineties Phillie who lasted until the Aughts. One went to my alma mater. And honestly, only one of these would I have guessed.

I think of losing Wright and Davis at the same time and replacing them by calling up Tejada, giving him Murphy and Turner's job at second, and putting Turner at third and Murphy at first. It was essentially replacing two thirds of the heart of the order with a (to that point) .200-hitting middle infielder and the bailout side of the Turner/Murphy platoon. That we ever survived that is still pretty hard to believe.

Please vote for your top five Mets infielders of 2011. They will be awarded five points for each first-place vote, four for each second-place vote, etc. He with most points after a week is awarded the Crane Pool Forum Edgardo Alfonzo Award for Outstanding Mets Infielder. By my count, 14 Mets and ex-Mets played the infield for the Orange and Blue this season: Ike Davis, Lucas Duda, Brad Emaus, Nick Evans, Scott Hairston, Willie Harris, Chin-lung Hu, Daniel Murphy, Val Pascucci, Jose Reyes, Josh Satin, Ruben Tejada, Justin Turner, and David Wright. Please vote so we may honor the most esteemed of the Mets' infielders. Note that many of our eligible players also played other positions. In voting, please consider only the performance of the players in question that occurred while they were infielding. (See the stats below.) Tweeters, please send the word out to Crane Pool Nation. PlayerGPAABRH2B3BHRRBISBCSBBSOBAOBPSLGOPSTBGDPHBPSHSFIBBROEIke Davis36149129213981725001731.302.383.543.92570510231Lucas Duda411511331342103320001324.316.380.504.88467221222Brad Emaus1139342500010047.147.256.147.4035310010Nick Evans4515814722397231900939.265.308.401.71059610101Scott Hairston1110000000000.000.000.000.0000000000Willie Harris175949813100411912.265.367.286.65214100100Chin-lung Hu611101100000016.100.182.100.2821000001Daniel Murphy9940237047119282544552437.322.361.449.8101661333224Val Pascucci1220000000000.000.000.000.0000000000Jose Reyes12458453510018031167443974341.336.383.493.877264502495Josh Satin818162300000019.188.278.188.4653010000Ruben Tejada943743263193151036513549.285.355.337.693110664336Justin Turner11047642547109280448723858.256.329.351.6801499102125David Wright102446388609923114611325297.255.343.428.771166530344 Fielding Stats Glossary: Rtot = Total Zone Total Fielding Runs Above Average Rtot/yr = Total Zone Total Fielding Runs Above Average per 1,200 Innings Rtz = Total Zone Fielding Runs Above Average Rdp = Total Zone Infield Double Plays Above Average Rdrs = BIS Defensive Runs Saved Above Average Rdrs/yr = BIS Defensive Runs Saved Above Average per 1,200 innings Rpm = BIS Plus/Minus Fielding Runs Above Average Rbnt = BIS Bunts FieldedRuns Above Average FirstbasemenGGSCGInnChPOAEDPFld%RtotRtot/yrRtzRdpRdrsRdrs/yrRpmRbntRF/9RF/GIke Davis363634317.032228734122.997262-128119.118.92Lucas Duda433731323.136735015230.995-1-4-10-1-4-1010.168.49Brad EmausNick Evans453828337.239836035323.9923104-17255210.538.78Scott HairstonWillie HarrisChin-lung HuDaniel Murphy524644419.045941936436.9912511617429.778.75Val Pascucci1107.054011.8000-7000-1-171-15.144.00Jose ReyesJosh Satin84244.053485061.0001171---------------10.846.63Ruben TejadaJustin TurnerDavid Wright SecondbasemenGGSCGInnChPOAEDPFld%RtotRtot/yrRtzRdpRdrsRdrs/yrRpmRbntRF/9RF/GIke DavisLucas DudaBrad Emaus1110683.1531637051.00011210------------5.724.82Nick EvansScott Hairston1000.2000000000000.000.00Willie Harris107766.1321022021.00011210-2-36-1-14.343.20Chin-lung Hu102129.2179711.941-1-52-10-1-40-104.851.60Daniel Murphy241916168.193365525.9780-21-1-2-140-24.873.79Val PascucciJose ReyesJosh SatinRuben Tejada555346457.124595146431.9840001132-14.744.38Justin Turner787162642.1358144206836.978-6-10-2-3-11-21-6-54.904.49David Wright ThirdbasemenGGSCGInnChPOAEDPFld%RtotRtot/yrRtzRdpRdrsRdrs/yrRpmRbntRF/9RF/GIke DavisLucas DudaBrad EmausNick Evans2003.0101001.00001080---00003.000.50Scott HairstonWillie Harris75348.01641110.938-1-29-10-2-50-202.812.14Chin-lung HuDaniel Murphy282522220.260134344.933-1-40-1211202.282.00Val PascucciJose ReyesJosh Satin1005.000000000---------------0.000.00Ruben TejadaJustin Turner363128277.279255043.949-4-19-1-300002.432.08David Wright10110196893.226768180199.929-11-15-11----7-9-5-22.502.46 ShortstopsGGSCGInnChPOAEDPFld%RtotRtot/yrRtzRdpRdrsRdrs/yrRpmRbntRF/9RF/GIke DavisLucas DudaBrad EmausNick EvansScott HairstonWillie HarrisChin-lung Hu1001.0110001.0000-108000009.001.00Daniel MurphyVal PascucciJose Reyes1241241191087.05541753611875.968-4-4-62-11-12-10-14.444.32Josh SatinRuben Tejada413838353.018153120818.956-1-50-2-2-71-34.414.22Justin Turner1005.052210.8000-2200001-17.204.00David Wright1002.0110001.000000---00004.501.00

Not enough to rank in the top 25. Roberts had 67 relief outings for 121 innings for a 2.97 ERA over his career, including his post-Phillies life. Pretty good, but not much more than a more typical reliever's season's worth of work. Standings 1. John Cougar Lunchbucket (196) 2. Ben Grimm (62) 3. Ceetar (49) T4. batmagadanleadoff (18) T4. dinosaur jesus (18) 5. sharpie (9) T6. Transmonk (-10) T6. MFS62 (-10) T8. Metirish (-20) T8. Gwreck (-20) 10. seawolf (-30)

From the leftovers, I go with my Phillie relievers from my kid Strat-O-Matic days, Dick Selma and Joe Hoerner, and throw in Don Carman, who was unhittable in '85. Rheal Cormier JC Romero Sorry I wasn't paying attention before. Jack Baldschun, 23. Since this whole "Guess the slot for more points and more fun!" thing isn't catching on with the wld popularity our focus group predicted for it. I'm going to assume you all guessed these guys as number 23. Selma is correct at number 25. He pitched in 73 games over 134.1 innings for a 2.75 ERA in 1970, and was progressively hurt and worse thereafter, but he earned enough value to chart in that one season. Little Joe Hoerner, on the other hand, is the mystery number three. He was everything in the early seventies Tug McGraw was for the Mets in the early seventies, sowmewhere between an ace and a hoss. He was traded mid-season in 1972, immediately started sucking, and bounced suckily around the league for a few years, before returning to Philadelphia in 1975. There, he somehow put up a last gilded season at 38, before moving on to other points and continuing to decline. Something in the Philadelphia water. Carman was a good guess. He followed his lovely 1985 with a darn solid season as a swingman in 1986. But I guess he comes in just short. Rheal Cormier was rheal dependable in LOOGy duty in 2003, a little less so in 2004, and not so much at all in 2005, but very good again in 2006. I'd've included him, but you know. LOOGys don't get enough outs in the denominator to impress the computers. JC Romero: same problem, only moreso. Eighty one games but only 59 innings? Really? Didn't cut it. Maybe our ranker just hates the LOOGys and the interminable seventh innings they create. Gwreck is wise, but not in the money this evening. Baldshun is a guy I never heard of until today, and therefore wouldn't have guessed under the deepest of duress. Relief ace of the early sixties, he got progressively more saves every season, finishing his five year Phillie tenure with 59. Then his arm went south early as it frequently did with relievers of his era. Sorry, Jack. But that answer clocks in at number 15 on our countdown. Good show. 25. Dick Selma (23 points for batmagadanleadoff) 24. 23. 22. 21. 20. Jim Kostanzy (25 points for Ben Grimm) 19. Jose Mesa (9 points for sharpie) 18. Turk Farrell (20 points for JC Lunchbucket 17. Tom Gordon (22 points fof JC Lunchbucket) 16. 15. Jack Baldshun (18 points for dinosaur jesus) 14. Ricky Bottalico (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 13. Roger McDowell (21 points for JC Lunchbucket) 12. Ryan Madson (16 points for JC Lunchbucket) 11. Al Holland (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 10. Brad Lidge (24 points for Ceetar) 9. Steve Bedrosian (24 points for Ben Grimm) 8. Kent Tekulve (23 points for Ben Grimm) 7. Mitch Williams (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 6. Heathcliff Slocumb (19 points for JC Lunchbucket) 5. Billy Wagner (25 points for Ceetar) 4. Gene Garber (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 3. Joe Hoerner (5 points for batmagadanleadoff) 2. Ron Reed (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 1. Tug McGraw (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) Not Ranked: Willie Hernandez, Mike Jackson, Bruce Ruffin, Alejandro Pena, Dennis Cook, Jeff Gray, Cole Hamels, Turk Wendell, Cory Lidle, Charlie Hudson, Kip Gross, Wayne Twitchell, Don Carman, Rheal Cormier, JC Romero Standings 1. John Cougar Lunchbucket (196) 2. Ben Grimm (62) 3. Ceetar (49) T4. batmagadanleadoff (18) T4. dinosaur jesus (18) 5. sharpie (9) 6. Transmonk (-10) T7. Metirish (-20) T7. Gwreck (-120) 9. seawolf (-30)

seawolf17 wrote: Throwing a bunch of guesses at #23. Charlie Hudson? (He was a starter, but he's the first guy who comes to mind.) Kip Gross Al Holland Wayne Twitchell as the Metly connection. Coming up empty, I'm sorry to say. Holland was correct, but has already been guessed. Standings 1. John Cougar Lunchbucket (196) 2. Ben Grimm (62) 2. Ceetar (49) 4. sharpie (9) 5. Transmonk (-10) 6. Metirish (-20) 7. seawolf (-30)

Jonathan Hurst.

Not Corey. Edgy DC wrote: Standings 1. John Cougar Lunchbucket (196) 2. Ben Grimm (62) 2. Ceetar (49) 4. sharpie (9) 5. Transmonk (-10) 6. Metirish (-20)

I'll fill in the blanks, but keep in mind we're still missing one Metly guy here.

I tend to think of Superman Returns as the capping of a franchise. But while it may be that story-wise, I guess yeah, it does qualify, business-wise, as a failed launch of a new franchise. Which is somethinng, considering that it made crazy amounts of money.

Well, yeah, I know there were five books, but if the film wasn't conceived with the intent to start a franchise, I don't put it in the same category as, say, Lost in Space, where the actors all signed on for three films.

No pension for minor leaguers. (They don't even have a union and aren't welcome in the MLBPA.) Any money he got would be from his signing bonus which, as a second rounder, was probably pretty good, but nothing that wouldn't make him a man of leisure or anything.

Was that meant to continue? Have plans for that gone away?

Thanks for cooperating. Unfortunately, Hamels and Wendell are both miscues Richard Joseph "Turk" Farrell (1956-1969) is our recidivist Phil (1956-1961, 1967-1969). He earned 65 Phillie saves and routinely pitched over 80 innings. He's an interesting case of how some teams were seeing the value in a relief ace and others weren't. He was exclusively a reliever for his first six years, the last of which led to a trade to LA. He moves on to Houston who use him as a middling starter for five years. They trade him back to Phillie and he returns to the pen for his last three seasons. 25. 24. 23. 22. 21. 20. Jim Kostanzy (25 points for Ben Grimm) 19. Jose Mesa (9 points for sharpie) 18. Turk Farrell (20 points for JC Lunchbucket 17. Tom Gordon (22 points fof JC Lunchbucket) 16. 15. 14. Ricky Bottalico (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 13. Roger McDowell (21 points for JC Lunchbucket) 12. Ryan Madson (16 points for JC Lunchbucket) 11. Al Holland (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 10. Brad Lidge (24 points for Ceetar) 9. Steve Bedrosian (24 points for Ben Grimm) 8. Kent Tekulve (23 points for Ben Grimm) 7. Mitch Williams (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 6. Heathcliff Slocumb (19 points for JC Lunchbucket) 5. Billy Wagner (25 points for Ceetar) 4. Gene Garber (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 3. 2. Ron Reed (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 1. Tug McGraw (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) Not Ranked: Willie Hernandez, Mike Jackson, Bruce Ruffin, Alejandro Pena, Dennis Cook, Jeff Gray, Cole Hamels, Turk Wendell Standings 1. John Cougar Lunchbucket (196) 2. Ben Grimm (62) 2. Ceetar (49) 4. sharpie (9) 5. Metirish (-20)

Pat Strange, the Mets' second best pitching prospect (after Grant Roberts) of the early aughts got a little beyond prospect status with a whopping eleven appearances (no starts) between 2002 and 2003. But his talent was stagnating, and after a 3.82 ERA at Norfolk in 2002, he clocked in at 5.82 and 5.25 in 2003 and 2004, with his walk rate distinctly upticking. Strange had been expected to go in the first round but slid to the second as scouties noticed him losing velocity his senior year of high school. The Mets suspected it was due to him throwing a splitter and took a chance in the second, but he never fully developed. His father, also a highly regarded minor leaguer who never blossomed, taught him the split. As his Met career was fizzing out, arm problems began to surface. Upon his release by the Mets, he caught on with Minnesota but complained of elbow pain in spring training, was diagnosed with bone spurs, and underwent what would turn out to be career-ending surgery. While he was the team's number two pitching prospect, he grew close with the Mets' number two hitting prospect at the time, Brian Cole. He now coaches the Little League team that features his son, Brian Cole Strange. But whatever happened to Arnold Gooch?

Sorry to miss those two. Not to be smart, but I'm going to have to ask for full names.

Dino J., I need a ranking for your guess. Fun Fact: Ron Reed also played two seasons in the NBA for the Pistons. That's a fun fact! Jim Konstanty, 20? I learn something new each and every day, especially from Benji Grimm, who whacks his way into second. What I don't need to learn any more is not to understimate Ben. Jim Kostanty (1944, 1946, 1948-1956, Phillies 1948-1954). He had 54 Phillie saves retroactively credited to him, led the league in games once, games finished twice, and threw as many as 152 innings (1950) in relief. What a bullseye! 25. 24. 23. 22. 21. 20. Jim Kostanzy (25 points for Ben Grimm) 19. Jose Mesa (9 points for sharpie) 18. 17. Flash Gordon, King of the Impossible (22 points fof JC Lunchbucket) 16. 15. 14. Ricky Bottalico (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 13. Roger McDowell (21 points for JC Lunchbucket) 12. Ryan Madson (16 points for JC Lunchbucket) 11. Al Holland (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 10. Brad Lidge (24 points for Ceetar) 9. Steve Bedrosian (24 points for Ben Grimm) 8. Kent Tekulve (23 points for Ben Grimm) 7. Mitch Williams (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 6. Heathcliff Slocumb (19 points for JC Lunchbucket) 5. Billy Wagner (25 points for Ceetar) 4. Gene Garber (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 3. 2. Ron Reed (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 1. Tug McGraw (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) Not Ranked: Willie Hernandez, Mike Jackson, Bruce Ruffin, Alejandro Pena, Dennis Cook, Jeff Gray Standings 1. John Cougar Lunchbucket (176) 2. Ben Grimm (62) 2. Ceetar (49) 4. sharpie (9)

The rest are all going to be hard, all but one or two really hard.

25. 24. 23. 22. 21. 20. 19. Jose Mesa (9 points for sharpie) 18. 17. Flash Gordon, King of the Impossible (22 points fof JC Lunchbucket) 16. 15. 14. Ricky Bottalico (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 13. Roger McDowell (21 points for JC Lunchbucket) 12. Ryan Madson (16 points for JC Lunchbucket) 11. Al Holland (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 10. Brad Lidge (24 points for Ceetar) 9. Steve Bedrosian (24 points for Ben Grimm) 8. Kent Tekulve (23 points for Ben Grimm) 7. Mitch Williams (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 6. Heathcliff Slocumb (19 points for JC Lunchbucket) 5. Billy Wagner (25 points for Ceetar) 4. Gene Garber (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 3. 2. Ron Reed (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 1. Tug McGraw (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) Not Ranked: Willie Hernandez, Mike Jackson, Bruce Ruffin, Alejandro Pena, Dennis Cook, Jeff Gray Standings 1. John Cougar Lunchbucket (176) 2. Ceetar (49) 2. Ben Grimm (37) 4. sharpie (9)

Ceetar looking to climb back into the race by bullseyeing Wagner. 25. 24. 23. 22. 21. 20. 19. Jose Mesa (9 points for sharpie) 18. 17. 16. 15. 14. Ricky Bottalico (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 13. Roger McDowell (21 points for JC Lunchbucket) 12. Ryan Madson (16 points for JC Lunchbucket) 11. Al Holland (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 10. Brad Lidge (24 points for Ceetar) 9. Steve Bedrosian (24 points for Ben Grimm) 8. Kent Tekulve (23 points for Ben Grimm) 7. Mitch Williams (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 6. Heathcliff Slocumb (19 points for JC Lunchbucket) 5. Billy Wagner (25 points for Ceetar) 4. Gene Garber (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 3. 2. Ron Reed (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 1. Tug McGraw (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) Not Ranked: Willie Hernandez, Mike Jackson, Bruce Ruffin, Alejandro Pena, Dennis Cook, Jeff Gray Standings 1. John Cougar Lunchbucket (154) 2. Ceetar (49) 2. Ben Grimm (37) 4. sharpie (9)

Great job. Funny how many of these guys made an impact but I far more associate them with other teams. Holland and Reed are Phillies all the way in my head. But Tekulve is a Buc, Bedrock and Garber are Braves, Slocumb is a freaking Mariner (and a Bronte hero), and McGraw is naturally a Met.

25. 24. 23. 22. 21. 20. 19. 18. 17. 16. 15. 14. Ricky Bottalico (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 13. Roger McDowell (21 points for JC Lunchbucket) 12. Ryan Madson (16 points for JC Lunchbucket) 11. Al Holland (24 points for JC Lunchbucket) 10. Brad Lidge (24 points for Ceetar) 9. Steve Bedrosian (24 points for Ben Grimm) 8. Kent Tekulve (23 points for Ben Grimm) 7. Mitch Williams (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 6. Heathcliff Slocumb (19 points for JC Lunchbucket) 5. 4. Gene Garber (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 3. 2. Ron Reed (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) 1. Tug McGraw (25 points for JC Lunchbucket) Not Ranked: Willie Hernandez, Mike Jackson, Bruce Ruffin, Alejandro Pena, Dennis Cook, Jeff Gray Standings 1. John Cougar Lunchbucket (154) 2. Ben Grimm (37) 3. Ceetar (24)

25 . 24 . 23 . 22 . 21 . 20 . 19 . 18 . 17 . 16 . 15 . 14 . 13 . 12 . 11 . 10 . Brad Lidge (24 points for Ceetar) 9 . Steve Bedrosian (24 points for Ben Grimm) 8 . Kent Tekulve (23 points for Ben Grimm) 7 . 6 . 5 . 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 . Not Ranked: Willie Hernandez Standings 1. Ben Grimm (37) 2. Ceetar (24)

I stumbled over an article somebody wrote about the 25 Best Relievers in Phillies History. While it's just one unknown guy's opinion, I thougth it might be fun to test your knowledge of who Danny Ozark, Charlie Manuel, Dallas Green, and Mayo Smith have been signaling for all these years. Rulez: You guess the guy AND the slot he falls into. Getting the guy correct nets you 25 points, but minus one for every point off you are on the slot. So if you guess that Guy Jones is the nunber two reliever on this list, but he's in fact 17th, you get 10 points (25-15). You lose 10 points for every guy you guess who is not on the list at all. Some hints: Five also played with the Mets. Four played before the Mets era and you frankly deserver about a million points if you come up with their names. (Even some guys from 1962-1980 will likely be elusive.) One guy had two tours of duty with the Phils, one before the Mets existed and one after the Mets came on the scene. It all threatens to derail the whole enterprise, but we'll see. So, who are the top 25 Phillie relievers of all time, according to some guy. 25 . 24 . 23 . 22 . 21 . 20 . 19 . 18 . 17 . 16 . 15 . 14 . 13 . 12 . 11 . 10 . 9 . 8 . 7 . 6 . 5 . 4 . 3 . 2 . 1 .