batmagadanleadoff

Edgy DC wrote: batmags, any objection to me extracting the content about this game from the KTE thread and adding it here? Fine with me. Do whatever'll make the most people happy. Bring over the stuff about the '61 Reds too, for all I care.

My recollection isn't that the slide precipitated the fight, but Davis getting up and heading a few steps toward home, turning to return to third and finding Knight blocking his path. Fearing he might get thrown out, he tried to push past Knight and Knight took exception. The game article from the July 23, 1986 edition of the Daily News includes several POV's as to what started the fight, and this one from Dave Parker, as reprinted in The Daily News Scrapbook History of the N.Y. Mets 1986 Season: "Knight precipitated the fight. He was trying to push Eric off the base. It's the second time this series. He was a little too aggresive and Eric just retaliated". I posted Parker's quote because, having watched the incident several times yesterday, Parker's description appears to be the most accurate. Knight came at Davis and chest bumped him, after the play had ended. Perhaps Knight's intense competitive juices were riled because of how easily Davis stole third (and second a few pitches earlier) after entering the game to pinch-run for Pete Rose. Davis entered that game with 45 steals in 50 attempts and was emerging as one of baseball's best young players. From 1986 to 1990, Davis would finish in the top 15 in MVP voting every year. He was on the bench because he had been hit with a pitch on his wrist a few games earlier and had difficulty swinging a bat. His fist swing was a little slow, too. It didn't help the Mets cause that the deterioration of Carter's defensive skills was plainly noticeable by mid '86 -- Carter, by then, was one of baseball's worst at throwing out would be base stealers. (I think Carter's bad knees affected the quality of his throws more than his throwing arm). I don't recall Dykstra being wanted by the Reds pitching staff but for what it's worth, Kevin Mitchell was pictured slugging Red pitcher Mario Soto in the other thread.

It takes a village to bring down Kevin Mitchell.

Did you expect that Kevin Mitchell would stand around idly during a gang fight?

Parker peels 'em off, one by one.

The melee.

Edgy DC wrote: Edgy DC wrote: Look how far down the line Willis is when Keith is fielding the ball. About seven feet. It was like Keith was allowed to make plays other players weren't even allowed to attempt, and our advantage at first during those middle-80s years would be hard to quantify. That he played with Jim Kaat on the Cards and Roger McDowell on the Mets must have made bunting a particularly pointless exercise when partnered with those two, who were lightning quick off the mound and had very little territory to cover that Keith didn't already have dibbs on. What's makes Keith's play especially impressive is that Willis, aware of Keith's defensive abilities, tried to bunt the ball away from Keith. Willis bunted the ball down the third base line and Keith still fielded it. He got to that bunt so quickly that he was able to throw out Buddy Bell by the proverbial country mile. Bell was so easily out at third that he had no chance to start a takeout slide on Gary Carter.

These images are priceless. Thanks BMF. My pleasure. ___ The play of the game. With the score still tied in the bottom of the 12th, the Reds are suddenly poised to win the game when Buddy Bell, then Dave Parker, each single with nobody out. Though runners are on first on second, the Reds, their own bench also depleted, are forced to send up pitcher Carl Willis to bat. It's an obvious sacrifice situation, especially with the pitcher batting, and one that even I would approve of. A runner on third with one out has a better chance of scoring than a runner on second with nobody out. That the successful sac bunt might minimize the chances of scoring many other runs in the inning is moot in the bottom of the 12th because the Reds' first run wins the game. Here's the Mets' defensive alignment with Willis batting: Keith Hernandez had set up about 45 -50 feet from Willis. He's stationary in the picture above. He'd begin his famous charge during Orosco's windup and delivery. By the time Willis bunted, Keith was already on a direct line in between home plate and the pitcher's mound. If Keith had gotten to his spot any earlier, Jesse's pitch would've hit Keith in the back of his head. Keith fielded the ball on the third base side of the infield; the momentum from his aggressive charge carried him practically to the third base foul line, where he threw out lead runner Bell. Carter completed the 3-5-4 doubleplay by gunning Willis out at first. If this was any first baseman other than Keith Hernandez, I would presumptuously write that this play was probably the greatest defensive moment of the first baseman's career. It would've had to have been. But for anyone here who was too young to see Hernandez live, I'm telling you that Keith pulled off these gems, seemingly every week. And in the mid-80's Keith's tactics were still revolutionary.

After the ejections, Johnson was forced to use at least one pitcher as a fielder. And so Orosco manned right field. Here, Orosco crams for some outfielding tips from Mookie Wilson and Lenny Dykstra while Roger McDowell takes his warm-up pitches. 7/22/86 McDowell walks to his next position -- right field -- as Orosco is called on to pitch. But not before first heading to the Mets dugout to exchange his pitching glove for an outfielder's glove. You can see McDowell putting a batting glove on his left hand for further protection or cushioning should a line drive come his way. "Would you believe that the Jesse-Roger tango, repeated several times (and eventually incorporating Mookie, who gamely shuttled between left and right when Davey tried extra hard to hide a hurler), was probably only the second-most noteworthy aspect of this game? Maybe nothing beat it for peculiarity � a sense enhanced when Rose flipped through a rule book in the Reds� dugout in an effort to protest Orosco being allowed to throw warmup tosses when he and McDowell switched in the midst of the eleventh inning � but the presence of a pitcher in the outfield didn�t truly define the classic this game was about to become." http://www.faithandfearinflushing.com/page/2/ Reds manager Pete Rose and coach George Scherger in a snit when Orosco, who had already pitched before, was allowed the customary warmup pitches a reliever is accorded when first appearing in a game.

Isn't it odd to see Gary Carter with a glove but no mask or chest protector? With the Mets bench depleted from earlier substitutions and ejections, Carter mans third and fields his first chance flawlessly.

The error.

More history. Last Friday marked the 25th year anniversary of one of the most unforgettable games in Mets history. Here, future former Met John Franco reacts after Dave Parker drops a catchable fly ball with two outs in the 9th and the Reds up by two, allowing the Mets to tie the game, and more importantly, blowing Franco's Save.

Thanks for the history lesson. I did not know that the Crosley Field scoreboard, including its topmost clock, was in play. Makes Citi Field's left-center field dimensions little league by comparison. Ted Williams bats at Crosley Field in an exhibition night game. The Crosley clock informs and looms in the background.

Mind you, I'm fairly certain* that they WON'T do Brown or Bastardo for a two-month rental. *DISCLAIMER: Me being some imbecile who's spent several hundred dollars and counting to wear various hats and shirts with a garish corporate logo and other grown men's names/representations on them. You're probably right, imbecile or not. But Jon Heyman, who's right more often than anybody else when it comes to predicting future Mets moves, imbecile or not, implies that the chances of the Mets landing Brown for Beltran are greater than one might ordinarily think. Whatever happens, I give you my personal guarantee that Beltran won't be the marginal difference that makes the Phillies a better team than the Mets.

Carlos to the Phillies would be pretty hard to swallow. Why? He'd only be there until the end of the year. It's not like we're fighting them for a playoff spot and they ain't resigning him. He's going AL. Hard to swallow, as in it's tough to get down immediately. The visual image of him hitting a game-winning home run in red stripes to complete another Philly playoff comeback produces an almost visceral disgust in me. It's ultimately digestible, though, should they get good value. And if they'll overpay for him, with Brown or Bastardo? I'll pay the bus fare. I root for a team that plays in the biggest market in the world and yet finished in first place in their five team division* just once in the last 23 years. So I figure: Who the hell am I to say what other team should or shouldn't finish in first? Bring me the head of Dominic Brown, I say. *Since 1994

Ceetar wrote: Yes, Parnell having to face Pujols with two on in a 2-run game hurt his development because it was in the 8th inning. I especially like this one.

Edgy DC wrote: The sarcasm awash in this thread is enough to drown a man. I like it.

Excerpt from Oliver Perez With a Bat? But the batting order offered a glimpse at how far Bay has fallen. �Even with Beltran, Jose Reyes, David Wright and Ike Davis out with injuries, Bay still batted sixth. The top of the order looked like something from a split-squad game in spring training: Angel Pagan, Willie Harris, Daniel Murphy, Hairston and Lucas Duda. Bay's looking so bad at the plate -- he looks like he can't even see the pitch.

However, [the Mets] expected that Scott Boras would soon get that list submitted But then OTOH, that line is inconsistent with team K-Rod forfeiting its right to submit a 10 team list. It ain't easy to interpret a contract without the actual contract itself to read.

Benjamin Grimm wrote: According to the New York Times this morning, Rodriguez's original agent never got around to submitting the list of ten teams to which Frankie could reject a trade, which meant that the Mets could have traded him anywhere. However, they expected that Scott Boras would soon get that list submitted, and he'd have the advantage of selecting the teams based on the current landscape, which would have made trading Frankie very difficult. (Boras, of course, would want some compensation for waiving the trade veto.) So Sandy decided he needed to act quickly. Getting out from under that $17.5 million obligation was paramount. The Brewers gave the Mets a list of five prospects. The Mets will scout them aggressively over the next couple of weeks and then choose two of them. I'm speculating here, but this line in the NYT article: The Mets thought that once Boras assumed representation, he would scrutinize Rodriguez�s contract and either try to submit a list or perhaps file a grievance that might allow him to do so. suggests that team K-Rod might have waived or forfeited their right to designate their 10 teams by not doing so in timely fashion. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/sports/baseball/mets-traded-rodriguez-because-of-money-not-manpower.html OTOH, if that right was forfeited, then there would've been no rush on the Mets part to trade K-Rod. But OTOH maybe the Mets just in cased it to be safe.

Vic Sage wrote: ... i don't have to delude myself with pennant hopes in order to enjoy watching a Mets game. Wow. About as profound as anything I've ever read here.

This Beltran thing sort of puzzles me.... OE: Vic are you saying the Mets won't get draft picks if they don't sign him? I believe that the Mets agreed not to offer Beltran arbitration at the end of his current contract, thus making it impossible for the Mets to receive compensatory draft picks should Beltran file for free agency and sign with another team.

I don' t know if I should be happy about the K-Rod trade. How's this helping to get rid of the Wilpons?