Vic Sage wrote: Well, I think it's nice that Willets came back and we patched things up. Red-head loving, liberal Metfans have to stick together. But i still agree with Edgy, and stand by every word i wrote, and am proud I convinced LWFS of my position, too. In fact, I think I was eloquent as fuck. If not my finest CPF moment, it was among my favorites. Clusterfuck? I disagree. A lengthy debate about the nature of honor (or "honor", as some would have it) is a thread worth keeping and remembering. I agreed with everything you wrote about honor. I just think that you might as well still believe in Santa Claus to expect players to truly feel that way in that context and circumstance.