batmagadanleadoff

A visual career retrospective, courtesy of The Man From Topps, of a pitcher who grew a mustache, learned to throw lefthanded*, and ended up at Butterball Field, older, but not a single pound heavier. Who is he? * Not really. The Met image is reversed.

G-Fafif wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: His last name is practically a homonym for the last name of a player who is among the 10 greatest Mets ever. Though "Jackie Robinson" is pretty darn close to "Kevin Roberson," I'm going to go with Roy Sievers.

Zvon wrote: So one thing I'm going to try to do is collect all these pics of players posing at the Sadecki Spot. Some part of that corner area of Butterball Field has to be in the pic to qualify. Galen Cisco with the parking lot, and with Millers cage. I'm gonna say 1965 (don't know). Good close up of the cage early on. Was it for mosquito attacks? The Cisco's are from 1966. Who is the Met below photographed by The Man From Topps on the same day that the Cisco pics were taken?

This ex-Met was a tort plaintiff in a baseball related lawsuit that was ultimately heard by the New York Court of Appeals, the State's highest court.

I've got no interest in the post-season. All I saw was about an inning and a half of Verlander's last start and was appalled that the announcers wouldn't say that he was working on a perfect game, or even a no-hitter. And then there's my usual post-season peeve about the batter stats graphics, when they only show what the batter did in the series, as if his post-season stats are more indicative than his regular season stats. Never hated the Cards other than during their great mid-80's rivalry with the Mets. Never hated the Dodgers either. What? It's their fault that the Mets are now pathetic sad sacks?

Zvon wrote: This photo should not be used for an example of the color of anything. The hue is totally out of wack. All the photos from that session are. They are all great photographs, it's a shame. All you gotta do is to look at the Rheingold ad at the top of the scoreboard to see that the colors are off. But even if the colors of that '69 shot are accurate, how does that prove that the early '67 walls were white?

LeiterWagnerFasterStrongr wrote: Don't get me wrong-- I'm not fart noise-ing on the entire idea, just the potential conclusion. I mean, I get what things like UZR and Plus/Minus actually measure, even if the exact how is a little beyond my ken; I need a little more under-the-hood information before I can weight the matter properly. Well yeah ... that's the whole point. One can accept the f/x technology and its practically infallible ability to determine whether a pitch is a ball or a strike. I think you yourself have been linking to that data for a few years, now. But from there, is it a leap of faith to believe some of the findings ... that a catcher can influence whether a ball is called a strike or a strike called a ball, and to the extent cited in the article? The effects of pitch framing aren't new. An umpire can't see the whole plate because the catcher blocks his view. This was always known, going back to the 19th century. But those findings .. that's a whole nuther animal. Of course, even so, when it comes to speculating whether f/x technology can prove whether or not Grote was the best Mets catcher, we're clearly in who would win a footrace between Batman and Aquaman territory, because we'll never know for sure.

You seem to be saying two different things. It's possible that the Mets used white paint to redo the walls ... if so, the white, mixed with the dark green, yielded some shade of light green. That's possible. But the early '67 walls weren't white. Just look at the youtube video and compare the walls to the Mets uniforms, or the sleeves on the Pirates uniforms. Those walls aren't white.

Jump ahead to about 4:30 in this video and you can see the wall painted white. I imagine the league whisteled it. Probably was blinding to hitters when the sun hit it, and really dangerous if you were facing a guy who dropped down low. [youtube]3GB_kkbFVhk[/youtube] It almost seems to have a hint of baby blue on the film. Maybe that's the green bleeding through. The temporary '67 wall paint job was never white --- more like a light aquamarine, if you wanna use crayola crayons as a point of reference. The youtube video is a, more or less, accurate showing of the outfield wall color. batmagadanleadoff wrote: Undated photo of Mets Grote & Berra, which had to have been taken during the early portion of the 1967 season -- check out the paint job on the outfield wall -- the numbers are dark and the wall is light. Grote at Butterball Field Looks like the Butterball Field photo was also shot in '67; Grote's got the exact same glove and pair of spikes on in the Shea shot.

TheOldMole wrote: And, fogey that I am, I tend to like the old, pre-Milwaukee Brave teams. You mean the Boston Braves?

Undated photo of Mets Grote & Berra, which had to have been taken during the early portion of the 1967 season -- check out the paint job on the outfield wall -- the numbers are dark and the wall is light. Grote at Butterball Field

I'm not taking any position here ... I simply posted the framing article link for discussion. Still, if the author's premise is credible ... if Jose Molina is worth more runs to his team than Giancarlo Stanton ... then the subject, the idea that Grote might be the Mets greatest catcher isn't so easily dismissable. Johnny Bench is still the benchmark for defensive catchers (benchmark! lol, guffaw, guffaw, rotflmao) and there's still a faction, a clique, a posse, whatever, that claims that Grote was even better than Bench behind the plate. BTW, in 1973, Grote was on the disabled list for about two months. The 1973 82-79 Mets (.509 W-L pct.) were 21-33 during Grote's inactive stint, and 61-46 otherwise (.570). That .570 W-L pct. prorates to 92 wins over 162 games. FWIW. Perhaps a new baseball paradigm is in order where the catcher is as valuable as an NFL quarterback. Sheesh, I might have to re-assess Gary Carter's legacy, who I think is historically, the most overrated Met and the Derek Jeter of the franchise.

Maybe if the Mets had better owners ... if they played like a team with all the natural advantages of being the NY National League franchise should play like, they'd be in this NLCS instead of one of those other teams. I know where I'm aiming my hate.

Digging out those old Jerry Grote game videos for studying might demonstrate that the grumpy one was the greatest Mets catcher ever, and perhaps the main reason why in Grote's prime, his average to weak hitting Mets competed for the division every single season. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9275754/studying-art-pitch-framing-catchers-such-francisco-cervelli-chris-stewart-jose-molina-others * * Grote-free thought provoking article

And here's Ron Swoboda (1967) at the renovated Butterball Field, cage included. The water fountain ties the old and new versions of the field. Who am I extra credit. This question is worth two 2 two clapping gifs. Who's giving Ron batting tips? More from the Swoboda batting tips session. A better shot of the cage. Hint: He was a Rookie of the Year and a four-time all star. bump His last name is practically a homonym for the last name of a player who is among the 10 greatest Mets ever.

Zvon wrote: Those shoes. Sid Finch.

With his extreme splits, Choo'd make a neat pick in a Strat-O-Matic all-star draft league. But in real life, this guy'll be fork done by the time the Mets are in the playoffs.

Grantland's Baseball Dictionary Some excerpts: Beanball (n.) � tool used by overly sensitive/cowardly pitchers to police anything and everything. This includes but is not limited to: firing pitches at (defenseless) PED users/for getting snubbed at a party; teaching a rookie who has done nothing wrong some proper manners; slow trots around the bases; celebrating with teammates; smiling; and breathing. Some pitchers will drill a batter just for hitting a home run with no embellishment, because it's better to endanger an opponent's health and act like a ninny than it is to acknowledge that maybe you just suck. #BlameBeltran (exp.) � cousin of #Belted; Mets fans use #BlameBeltran to mock those who criticized former New York outfielder Carlos Beltran for the team's woes. It's not uncommon for shortsighted fans and especially jealous and clueless media members to make highly paid players become scapegoats for a team's problems. A player like Beltran � who derived a good chunk of his value from underrated skills like on-base percentage, struggled at times with injuries, and doesn't make a show of fake hustle or faux-emotion on every single play � is an especially attractive target for the idiot masses. Bunting (n. and v.) � lovely decorative touch for stadiums on occasions such as All-Star Games and World Series. Other than a few, rare exceptions, bunting has no other useful purpose in baseball. Clutch (adj.) � the notion that certain players perform better in high-leverage situations. In large enough samples (i.e., multiple years or entire careers), very, very few players actually demonstrate an ability to put up better numbers in so-called clutch spots than otherwise. For example, Derek Jeter is widely considered to be a clutch player, but he has actually put up nearly identical numbers both with runners in scoring position and in the postseason as he has the rest of the time. The myth of clutch hitting and clutch pitching remains alive and well � despite hard evidence to the contrary � for a few reasons. First, a player like Jeter will end up with many chances to produce in big spots because he has played for a highly successful team, so of course he's going to have some big moments. Second, human beings are highly vulnerable to confirmation bias, a phenomenon in which we remember events that support our preconceived notions about people and events and ignore events that contradict what we already believe. Third, many fans, teams, writers, and broadcasters like to make declarative statements without the benefit of evidence, because they like to hear themselves talk and because mythmaking is fun/considered good business. Lineup Protection (n.) � the idea that hitters perform better when good hitters hit immediately behind them than otherwise. The concept has been studied multiple times. It has been found to be a myth. Maddux (exp.) � a complete-game shutout requiring fewer than 100 pitches. Invented by baseball blogger Jason Lukehart, a Maddux is a start in which a pitcher shows both dominance and peak efficiency. As you can probably guess, the leader in Madduxes (which can be tabulated starting from only 1988, when pitch-count totals became widely available) is � Greg Maddux. Operation Shutdown (exp.) � threat issued by former Pirates outfielder Derek Bell regarding what he'd do if he were forced to compete for a job in spring training, rather than earn one by merit. "I ain't going out there to hurt myself in spring training battling for a job. If it is [a competition], then I'm going into 'Operation Shutdown.' Tell them exactly what I said. I haven't competed for a job since 1991." This quote is more than a decade old, but we're reviving it here because it's amazing, and more outrageously self-entitled players need to use it for comedic purposes. Proven Closer (exp.) � a pitcher who has received and converted multiple save chances in the major leagues, thus making him a better candidate to close games in the future, even if others have better stuff and put up better numbers in every other way. This concept ignores the fact that many top closers are nothing more than mediocre, repertoire-limited, or injury-prone starters (Dennis Eckersley, Mariano Rivera, Billy Wagner, Eric Gagne) who excel in short relief, because it's infinitely easier to throw harder, use fewer pitch types, and succeed when required to throw 10 or 15 pitches a night instead of 100-plus. The fetishizing of closers and the supposed closer mentality also leads managers to make counterproductive moves, such as saving their closer for when the team has a lead, especially on the road. That's how we end up with games going 15 innings and every scrub in the bullpen being used except the closer, with the end result being a loss. #Toomanyhomers/Rally Killers (exp.) � a theory put forth by some misguided broadcasters and pundits, who argue that a team hitting too many homers can hurt an offense since home runs wipe baserunners off the basepaths and thus kill a rally. That's just � let's move on. #Weirdbaseball (exp.) � phrase coined by former Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, and ESPN contributor (now Astros pro scouting coordinator) Kevin Goldstein. Used to describe any baseball game that goes past midnight local time. According to #weirdbaseball customs, everyone watching such a game is encouraged to eat ice cream after the clock strikes midnight. http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9591781/jonah-keri-baseball-grantland-dictionary

Try this one ...

Frayed Knot wrote: batmagadanleadoff wrote: I remember reading a magazine article from 1969 featuring Reggie Jackson. 1969 was Reggie's breakout superstar season. Reggie seemed very humble with his relatively new fame and wanted to deflect the attention he was attracting towards Cleon Jones, who, said Reggie, was baseball's real new black superstar. False humility has long been one of Reggie's go-to moves. Maybe back then there was some actual humility in whatever he was saying, although I tend to doubt it. Or maybe Reggie really did have a thing for the Mets of his early-stage MLB career.

Never saw those East Meets West cards. Are those f'reals or an online mashup? Either way, nice job. Though it does remind me those BP caps with the skyline logo on the side were just giving up. They're real Topps cards --- 2002's. http://www.comc.com/Cards,so,=murakami+east

Confession: I loved Reggie Bars.

John Cougar Lunchbucket wrote: Zvon wrote: If we got Reggie then we never would have gotten Rusty and I don't want to live in a Met world without Rusty Staub. I think an honest analysis would suggest the Rusty Staub trade wasn't a very good one. I wouldn't have minded an outfield of Reggie, Singleton and perhaps Otis. Who would complain about that?

I remember reading a magazine article from 1969 featuring Reggie Jackson. 1969 was Reggie's breakout superstar season. Reggie seemed very humble with his relatively new fame and wanted to deflect the attention he was attracting towards Cleon Jones, who, said Reggie, was baseball's real new black superstar.