G-Fafif

Leiter?

Johnny Dickshot wrote: Jeezus, wouldya look at that early 98 lineup. In a year, Steve Phillips would have it completely tricked out. Hundleyitis. Or PPS (Pre Piazza Syndrome). Preston Wilson was a cleanup batter in good standing for others but not for us.

This is indeed addictive. Here's a Dude given 32 separate shots at the cleanup spot in 1980 but came up homer-empty (as he did in every slot that season). A finger injury in late July prevented him from removing himself from this conversation or making futile history.

Not exactly what's been asked for, but this guy strikes me as unlikely cleanup material. He was a bit of a hot hand (2 HR in the previous week, or 66.7% of his lifetime accumulation dating back over a six-year span) when he got his chance. He never came through after that particular vote of confidence. In fact he didn't stay in for the entire game and was gone from the majors within two months.

MFS62 wrote: Someone called up Steve Somers on WFAN last night with a suggestion that they hold the 2008 Home Run Derby at Shea the night before the ASG. It would make it part of a "New York" event and show some props to the about-to-be-replaced Shea. Thoughts about the idea? I liked this for about a minute, but the more I think about it, the more it reminds me of the former mayor's offer to let the Mets march off to the side at the 2000 ticker-tape parade. Let YS have its moment (it's had so few). Maybe the first pitch could be thrown out at Shea and there could be a relay, as with the Olympic torch, over the Triborough. If this were 1959-1962, we could each get an ASG.

The calling card of the "A-minus lineup" Willie fielded the night after the division clinching. If Ricky Ledee was playing, we were encouraged not to be concerned with the outcome.

Yancy Street Gang wrote: ="seawolf17"]I eagerly look forward to Reyes, Wright, Delgado, LoDuca, and starting pitcher John Maine doffing their caps to a chorus of boos as starting lineups are announced. That would all be nice. But what I'd really like to see is Willie Randolph as the National League manager. And Joe Torre sitting in the stands, of course. Maybe Willie can name him honorary National League coach. He can wear his old gray No. 9 with the blue and orange piping around the collar and cuffs.

From the Jewish Major Leaguers card set update, card No. 55, entitled "Three in One Game": ]At the beginning of the 9th inning at Fenway Park on August 8, 2005, Gabe Kapler moved from right to left, Adam Stern replaced him in right and Kevin Youkilis took the field at third. The excitement generated by three Jewish players on the field at the same time raised the question of whether this had ever happened before. We knew that there had been at least eight other instances of at least three Jewish players on the same roster during the same year. Subsequent research has led to the discovery that the record is actually FOUR Jewish players on the field at once! On September 21, 1941 (the afternoon before Rosh Hashanah), the New York Giants fielded four "Members of the Tribe" in the first game of a Polo Grounds doubleheader against Casey Stengel's Boston Braves. Harry Feldman, making his second major league appearance, pitched a nine-hit shutout. Sid Gordon, making his first major league appearance started in center and went one-for-three. Morrie Arnovich went one-for-four while playing left field, and Harry Danning did the catching and was hitless in four at-bats.

Says Gwreck: ]Then, they did a half-hour "UltimetMoments - Long Balls" of homerun highlights. Of course, in their comprehensive review of homers, they neglected to acknolwedge Matsui's three-seasons-in-a-row of leading off his season with a homer. Amen. I noticed that Orwellian oversight and I noticed something else. The only game in the history of the New York Mets in which the New York Mets hit two grand slams in one inning took place last season and it went completely unmentioned in a show devoted to home runs hit by the New York Mets last season -- even though that show included a segment on grand slams hit by the New York Mets. The equally rare eleven-run inning, which featured those two mid-July Wrigley Field slams by Floyd and Beltran (plus a two-run shot by Wright), got not a wisp of acknowledgement. For that matter, nothing that took place a couple of weeks later on a Saturday in Atlanta, when the Mets whomped the Braves 11-3 on two Beltran homers, was spoken of. Gosh, I wonder why. Oh yeah. Those games were, respecitvely, on ESPN and Fox. SNY is apparently only interested in promoting games it produced and aired (either on its home channel or on WPIX). The same held true for its previous UltiMet special, the season-in-review. You can bet your bottom dollar (if your cable company hasn't taken it) that if the Mets scored 11 runs in one inning on an SNY game, it would have received its very own segment in any UltiMet special and probably would be reaired a few dozen times in its entirety. Is it merely self promotion? Is it rights fees? Is it shortsightedness? Would footage of a couple of swings of the bat with Howie Rose and Tom McCarthy dubbed in instead of Gary, Keith or Ron make us think "oh, SNY isn't a very important factor in my Mets viewing"? I hate stuff like that.

Edgy DC wrote: You certainly have to look over McIllvaine's shoulder when you review his era and see the highest-profile free agent he signed (or even re-signed, I think) being Brett Butler, followed by John Freakin' Cangelosi. Somewhere Lance Johnson questions if he's chopped liver. The Mets' 31-year history with free agents (documented within) has cycled in hesitation, binge, regret -- rinse and repeat. Joe Mac came home with ownership in full regret mode. Hesitation was still the order of the day when he departed. The current regime may be taking a more realpolitik view of the whole thing. Omar went for it big-time when it made sense and backed off this winter when the stakes grew ridiculously high. It wasn't the Harazin/Phillips school of let's spend our way to a brighter future just as it wasn't the McDonald/Cashen school of musn't play with the filthy money nor the (most distressing) McIlvaine/Duquette let's not ever do that again school. Perhaps Omar has gone to school on what has come before.

="Edgy DC"]The transactions of McIllvaine (Source: UMDB): 1996: November 27, 1996: New York Mets traded Rico Brogna to the Philadelphia Phillies for Ricardo Jordan and Toby Borland. December 20, 1996: New York Mets traded Robert Person to the Toronto Blue Jays for John Olerud. The first was idiotic. The second was sublime. I wonder if the second was in the works when the first was consummated. My eternal anger over Rico Brogna being sent away has always been tempered by my eternal gratitude over John Olerud being acquired. That's a mighty big wash on McIlvaine's blotter. G-Fafif Jan 29 2007 07:18 AM Edgy DC wrote: You certainly have to look over McIllvaine's shoulder when you review his era and see the highest-profile free agent he signed (or even re-signed, I think) being Brett Butler, followed by John Freakin' Cangelosi. Somewhere Lance Johnson questions if he's chopped liver. The Mets' 31-year history with free agents (documented within) has cycled in hesitation, binge, regret -- rinse and repeat. Joe Mac came home with ownership in full regret mode. Hesitation was still the order of the day when he departed. The current regime may be taking a more realpolitik view of the whole thing. Omar went for it big-time when it made sense and backed off this winter when the stakes grew ridiculously high. It wasn't the Harazin/Phillips school of let's spend our way to a brighter future just as it wasn't the McDonald/Cashen school of musn't play with the filthy money nor the (most distressing) McIlvaine/Duquette let's not ever do that again school. Perhaps Omar has gone to school on what has come before. Vic Sage Jan 29 2007 12:55 PM I've evaluated his trades based on my judgment as to whether: - a player obtained either contributed meaningfully for the Mets, and at what cost, and/or - value-for-value talent evaluation (degree to which players obtained had significant remaining value, relative to what was given up for them (if anything), and vice versa (for players given up). on the whole, i'd say his moves were a net positive for the Mets. GOOD -November 22, 1993:New York Mets signed free agent Mike Remlinger. (he had a substantial career) -Mets drafted Kelly Stinnett from the Cleveland Indians (ML contributor) -March 27, 1994: New York Mets traded Kevin Baez and Tom Wegmann to the Baltimore Orioles for David Segui. (gave up nothing for player with significant career) -New York Mets traded Anthony Young and Ottis Smith to the Chicago Cubs for Jos� Vizcaino. (gave up nothing for solid contributor) -March 31, 1994: New York Mets traded Alan Zinter to the Detroit Tigers for Rico Brogna. (gave up nothing for significant - if shorterm- career) -November 28, 1994: New York Mets traded Juan Castillo and Andy Beckerman to the Houston Astros for Pete Harnisch. (gave up nothing for contribution to Mets season) -November 29, 1994: New York Mets traded Quilvio Veras to the Florida Marlins for Carl Everett. (borderline player for significant career) -April 11, 1995: New York Mets signed free agent Brett Butler. (solid contribution to that Mets season) -November 7, 1995: New York Mets signed free agent Rick Reed. (significant career) -December 14, 1995: New York Mets signed free agent Lance Johnson of the Chicago White Sox. (huge contribution for that season) -December 19, 1995: New York Mets traded Al Shirley to the Kansas City Royals for Brent Mayne.(nothing for a solid backup catcher) -January 17, 1996: New York Mets traded Kelly Stinnett to the Milwaukee Brewers for Cory Lidle. (backup catcher for a solid SP) -January 22, 1996: New York Mets traded Yudith Ozorio, Erik Hiljus and Eric Ludwick to the St. Louis Cardinals for Bernard Gilkey. (nothing for one of the best mets seasons ever) -March 31, 1996: New York Mets traded Ryan Thompson and Reid Cornelius to the Cleveland Indians for Mark Clark. (He made a contribution that season) -April 8, 1996: New York Mets traded Chris DeWitt to the Chicago Cubs for Matt Franco. (solid backup) -April 29, 1996: New York Mets signed free agent Endy Chavez.(turned out to be a solid backup) -December 20, 1996: New York Mets traded Robert Person to the Toronto Blue Jays for John Olerud. (best trade) -December 23, 1996: New York Mets signed free agent Todd Pratt. (solid backup catcher) BAD -April 7, 1994: Cincinnati Reds claimed Pete Schourek of the New York Mets on waivers (young pitcher played well for a few years). -June 2, 1994: New York Mets selected Paul Wilson in first round (first pick overall) of free agent draft. (bust) -New York Mets selected Terrence Long in first round (20th pick overall) of free agent draft. (bust) -November 18, 1994: New York Mets traded Jeromy Burnitz and Joe Roa to the Cleveland Indians for Dave Mlicki, Paul Byrd, Jerry Dipoto and Jesus Azuaje. (Burnitz went on to a much bigger career than any of the players given up for him) -November 30, 1994: New York Mets traded Fernando Vina and Javier Gonzales to the Milwaukee Brewers for Doug Henry. (Vina had a decent career; Henry didn't do much) -May 11, 1995: New York Mets traded Mike Remlinger to the Cincinnati Reds for Cobi Cradle. (Remlinger ended up a solid RP) -June 8, 1995: New York Mets traded David Segui to the Montreal Expos for Reid Cornelius. (Segui had some good years for other teams) -July 28, 1995: New York Mets traded Bobby Bonilla and Jimmy Williams to the Baltimore Orioles for Alex Ochoa and Damon Buford. (Bonilla had solid years left, and the 2 prospects were busts) -July 31, 1995: New York Mets traded Bret Saberhagen and David Swanson to the Colorado Rockies for Juan Acevedo and Arnold Gooch.(Saberhagen had a few good years left; we got nothing) -July 29, 1996: New York Mets traded Jeff Kent and Jos� Vizcaino to the Cleveland Indians for Carlos Baerga and Alvaro Espinoza. (worst trade he ever made for Mets) -November 25, 1996: New York Mets traded Paul Byrd to the Atlanta Braves for Greg McMichael. (Byrd went on to solid career) -New York Mets traded Rico Brogna to the Philadelphia Phillies for Ricardo Jordan and Toby Borland. (Brogna had strong years for Philly)

Ah, the skill sets... I was fine with McIlvaine and found it bizarre that he was dismissed in the midst of a renaissance year. Rescuing the rotation after the blowup of IPP was one of the most remarkable patch jobs in Mets history. What was supposed to be led by three young guns got by with one longtime organizational holdover, Jones, and several McIlvaine pickups: Mlicki, Clark, Reynoso and the gloriously unlikely Rick Reed. Got by and then some. The rap on Joe Mac was he wasn't comfortable with the pagers and cell phones that weren't yet ensconsed as tools of his trade, that he wanted to go scout high schoolers instead of report to higher-ups. I don't know how much of that was myth and how much of that was truth. I also don't know what turn the Mets would have made in the late '90s if he had hung around. Would have Joe Mac pulled the trigger (or had the trigger pulled for him by ownership) on the Piazza trade or the re-signing of Piazza? Would have he thrown $20-plus million at Ventura? Would have he pulled off the trade that brought in Benitez and Cedeno (back when they weren't double-edged swords to most fans)? For that matter would have he done some of the more objectionable deals his successor did? Or would have he done different things that would have worked as well if not better? I don't have an answer, but I didn't get the sense he deserved the boot, especially when he got it. One wonders as well if McIlvaine and Minaya succeeded to the degree they did/they have because they left town for a while. Their first jobs at the top were more like apprenticeships, Omar in Montreal, Joe in San Diego, than full-blown tenures. Neither stayed particularly long because neither had anything close to an ideal situation. And both came back to the Mets when the organization was in deep, deep trouble. Joe Mac's scenario was a lot deeper, it's fair to say (no Reyes, no Wright, middle of a miserable season, terrible veteran contracts that couldn't be offed so easily, ownership a decade away from ceding baseball control to the GM). Didn't hear it, but I know Lenny Dykstra was on the FAN a month or two ago ripping Joe Mac. Not sure if that should be treated as damning evidence against McIlvaine or a tacit endorsement of his judgment.

Bringing this topic over from the recently baseball-passed out of respect for the thread. JD's identification of the approximately '68 through '79 epoch that was less than Devine in terms of player development brings to mind another question of staleness. The Mets hired Frank Cashen, total outsider, in 1980. We know the arc of his tenure, the great and the not so great. We know he was succeeded by one lieutenant (Harazin in '91) then another who was on track to succeed him in the first place (McIlvaine who had left in '90 out of impatience for Cashen stepping down). The next successor (Phillips '97) was in-house. So was the next (Duquette '03). The next (Minaya '04) was not but, like one of his predecessors (McIlvaine), certainly had been earlier in his career. Question: Is Omar at all analogous to Bing in terms of bringing the fresh blood, the fresh eye, the unencumbered viewpoint? Or is it telling that the Mets have only gone completely outside their organization (no Met pedigree) twice, with Devine then Cashen, to secure front office leadership? In more concrete terms, would have the Mets been better off circa 1991 to have skipped Harazin and made a move on, for example, Pat Gillick? To have not lured McIlvaine back in 1993 but instead thrown a lot of money at, say, John Schuerholz? To have decided at the end of 1998 (one year after Minaya's initial assistant GM hiring) that given the headline-grabbing sexcapades emanating from the GM suite that Steve Phillips was not the man for the job but available and previously successful Bob Watson was? I'm just throwing those names out there. Insert your own, well-known or lesser-known. More to the point, Can we pinpoint the Mets' lack of consistent success since the late '80s as a symptom of internal rot because Wilpon/Doubleday never wanted to trust anybody they hadn't employed earlier? While there is something to be said for Baseball the Oriole Way or the Dodger Way and so forth, is it likely (never mind possible) that Baseball the Met Way is what squelched this franchise's productivity for far too long?

The Tudor-Stupor confusion wore by September of '85. Damn it. Blackened and intense, indeed. I'll never think of Lenny Randle sliding quite the same way again. Great find, JD.

Those periods when he was dangerous -- he was dangerous as few others can be. He only had a couple of truly blistering such stretches, but they were a joy. A little-celebrated but should-be homer from '06, the extra-inning job with which he tied up the Braves at 7 in that wacky Friday night game in early May, the 14-inning affair. It was yet another in a series of signal moments that 2006 would not be 1994-2005 where the N.L. East was concerned. He and Cammy introducing OutKast's "I Love The Way You Move" to the clubhouse and then to the PA and the way it echoed after the Saturday 10-9 win of the '04 Subway Series. Of course the Angel game. And the series he had against the Dodgers until he had to leave in October. Overall, a Met mensch.

Mr. M played the Anthem at Shea before Game One of the NLDS.Meanwhile, another Chenoweth sighting from broadwayworld.com:]A most untraditional sound came out of the speakers of The Metropolitan Opera Friday night. Just as music director/conductor Andrew Lippa lifted his arms to cue the 11-piece orchestra to begin the evening�s program he was interrupted by the rhythmic chords of an organ playing the type of energizing vamp more typical for a ballpark than an opera house. After a hearty �da-da-da-dat-da-da� charge!� the evening�s soloist dashed out wearing a New York Mets jersey and cap, gleefully waving a pennant and asking if anyone knows where the hot dog stand is. After being tactfully corrected by Lippa (�It�s not the Mets. It�s The Met.), Kristin Chenoweth slipped backstage and, at the climax of a lively Lippa-composed overture, was revealed as the golden curtains parted looking, well, �gorgeous� in a red sparkly mini-dress as she regaled the crowd with the Bock and Harnick showstopper of the same name.Like what she was wearing in the first place wasn't gorgeous?

"Yankee Stadium" is indeed a brand -- one most of us wouldn't buy if it was on deep discount, but definitely something worth preserving from a business standpoint. The rebuilt version has gotten untold mileage from its link with the original building, so creating a whole new structure (one probably more faithful to the 1923 YS than the '76 has been) and slap the same name on it only makes sense. Even if a financial institution offered them $40 mil a year, it would devalue that whole mystique jazz. But I agree that they'll find a way to backdoor a title sponsorship, such as Roach Motel Presents Yankee Stadium. As for the Univeristy of Phoenix, isn't that the online college that advertises on the likes of Channel 11 at three in the morning?

Opinion: It will be very strange having the Mets' top farm club not in Norfolk, not in the International League, not in the Eastern time zone, but I doubt it will make a great deal of material difference in terms of player development, New Orleans' unique status among cities (pre- and post-Katrina) notwithstanding. Fact: A field level box seat to a Mets game at Shea Stadium thirty years ago was four bucks.

Opinion: The silliest thing in baseball is the preseason prediction that offers complete records for every team in the Majors and then how each postseason series, down to the number of games required, will be determined seven months into the future. Fact: David Cone (1992), Bobby Bonilla (1995), Rick Reed (2001) and Armando Benitez (2003) were each traded in the same season that they were chosen as Met representatives on the N.L. All-Star team.

Opinion: Either Jim Bunning and Jerry Koosman should both be in the Hall of Fame or neither should be in the Hall of Fame. Given their relatively close careers, it confounds me that one won consistent support and eventual induction while the other garnered all of 4 votes. I don't think either should be in, but the wide disparity between the respective consideration given each man is what really gets to me. Fact: Carlos Beltran hit 5 ninth-inning home runs in the 2006 regular season.

Opinion: As bullpen roles were evolving, Tom Hausman's contribution to the midsummer surge of 1980 made him that team's MVP. Hausman was Turk Wendell without the crazy. Fact: In addition to tickling the ivories of the stadium organ, Jane Jarvis often played in Shea's Charcoal Room after games in the mid-'60s for the entertainment of season-ticket holders.

Opinion: Moises Alou's hot start will win him enough fan goodwill to withstand a June decline. Fact: No Met played as many as 45 games at second base in 2004, a year in which the Mets themselves played 162 games.

Bobby Bo got two votes. Then he ate them.

Noticed the Jets' Eric Barton resplendent in traditional blue Mets cap in the postgame media chat last Sunday. More than makes up for that penalty that nearly screwed the Jets over against San Diego two years ago (also known as the night we got Beltran).

Implied in this analysis: Ambivalent Dodger baserunning will result in quite a traffic jam at home plate, possibly very early in the first game of the NLDS. Good job!