The Shamsky Deal

[Edgy MD]

From another thread:

batmagadanleadoff wrote: New York Mets traded Art Shamsky, Rich Folkers, Jim Bibby and Charlie Hudson to the St. Louis Cardinals for Jim Beauchamp, Harry Parker, Chuck Taylor and Tom Coulter.

Did the Mets win this trade? I think yes in the short term but no in the long term.

[G-Fafif]

Kind of a lower-profile version of the Rusty trade. Great short-term payoff, conceivable long-term regrets vis-a-vis Bibby.

[Edgy MD]

Kind of how I was seeing it. Bibby, on the other hand, was mostly rotation filler until he did his best work in his early thirties, three teams after the Cards. That's a long time to wait to kick yourself over a deal.

[Guest Mets Guy in Michigan]

Folkers was one of those guys I remember always being in the back of the Mets yearbooks in the "One the Way to Shea" pages. Did he ever get called up in New York? I remember his Topps card as a Cardinal.

[Zvon]

Wow. I never knew Bibby went 19-19 in '74. Then 5-15. Then five years of him re-finding himself for a lil resurgence with the Bucs in '81 (19-6).
I think the immediate benefit of Parker in 73 & his contributions getting us back to the big show outweighs Jim's erratic career. Sure, we could have used him. But if it meant '73 didn't happen the way it happened, faaagetttaboutit.

[Edgy MD]

You, know, as fond as we may be of Parker's contribution in 1973, I think we're blinding ourselves here. Filling out the WARcard, we're totally over-looking the strong 1973 that Bibby himself put up once the Cards passed him on to Texas. He might have been a useful part to have around through that storied season, not just down the magical stretch. Who knows? It might have been him instead of George Stone that Berra refused to use in game six.

Anyhow, it looks hard to argue that the Mets don't get slammed --- as they do on so many of their 1970s trades --- start to finish.

	To	Cards	And	Beyond			=#0000FF]To	=#0000FF]Mets	=#0000FF]And	=#0000FF]Beyond
Year	Shamsky	Folkers	Bibby	Hudson	Total	Year	Beauchamp	Parker	Taylor	Coulter	Total
1972	-0.2	0.1	0.2	-0.2	-0.1	1972	-0.2		0.0		-0.2
1973		0.9	3.3	0.1	4.3	1973	-0.1	1.1	0.6		1.6
1974		1.5	0.3		1.8	1974		1.0	3.4		4.4
1975		1.0	1.3	-0.2	2.1	1975		0.0	0.6		0.6
1976		-0.8	3.0		2.2	1976		-0.1	0.1		0.0
1977		-0.4	2.5		2.1	1977		0.3			0.3
1978			0.8		0.8	1978					0.0
1979			3.1		3.1	1979					0.0
1980			3.7		3.7	1980					0.0
1981			2.9		2.9	1981					0.0
1982					0.0	1982					0.0
1983			-1.8		-1.8	1983					0.0
1984			0.1		0.1	1984					0.0
Total	-0.2	2.3	19.4	-0.3	21.2	Total	-0.3	2.3	4.7	0.0	6.7

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

metsguyinmichigan wrote: Folkers was one of those guys I remember always being in the back of the Mets yearbooks in the "One the Way to Shea" pages. Did he ever get called up in New York? I remember his Topps card as a Cardinal.

Folkers' mug just replaced Bibby's in those. I know Bibs turned out well but also knew Shamsky didn't didn't do much. Did Chuck Taylor really go on to have the 2nd best season of any of these guys?

(looks up). Sure enough, after he'd been lost on waiverd to Milwaukee and then gathered in by the Expos.