WARLords

[G-Fafif]

Defensive WARlords, per B-B Ref, contains some overlap, but looks very different:

1. Bud Harrelson 13.6
2. Jerry Grote 11.2
3. Rey Ordonez 10.0
4. John Stearns 7.9
5. Edgardo Alfonzo 6.1
6. Jose Reyes 4.9
7. Carlos Beltran 4.3
8. Robin Ventura 4.2
9. Kevin Elster 4.0
10. Chris Cannizzaro 3.4

Four shortstops, three catchers, a center fielder, a second/third baseman and a third baseman. Traditional "strength up the middle" positions account for 8.5 of the 10 slots, if we distribute roughly half of Alfonzo to second and half to third.

Anyone have Chris Cannizzaro in the defensive WAR Top 10 pool?

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

Now that would have been a killer kwiz.

[batmagadanleadoff]

G-Fafif wrote: Anyone have Chris Cannizzaro in the defensive WAR Top 10 pool?

Me. I knew that because I had stumbled upon that fact in the last few months while looking up something else about CC. Wanna know what's even more amazin' about CC's Mets dWAR than that he's even in the top 10? He accumulated his career Mets dWAR in about one full season's worth of plate appearances. So CC might have the best Mets career dWAR pound for pound.

[batmagadanleadoff]

G-Fafif wrote: Defensive WARlords, per B-B Ref, contains some overlap, but looks very different: 1. Bud Harrelson 13.6 2. Jerry Grote 11.2

One of the reasons Donn Clendenon was glad to be traded to the Mets was because of what he perceived as the Mets' dominant defensive strength up the middle, particularly the outstanding defense provided by Grote, Harrelson and Agee. In fact, Clendenon had already decided, before coming to the Mets, that Grote was the best defensive catcher in all of baseball. Better even than Bench. Ask Lou Brock. He'd agree with Donn. About Grote.

[G-Fafif]

"The only defensive catcher in baseball that can't catch."

Casey Stengel never met Defensive WAR...and vice-versa. Then again, maybe Casey really was talking about "Canzoneri," not Cannizzaro.

�The pitcher throws. Wild pitch. Throws again. Passed ball. Throws again. The ball drops out of the glove. And all the time I am dizzy on account of these runners running around in circles on me and so forth.�

[Edgy MD]

batmagadanleadoff wrote: Defensive WARlords, per B-B Ref, contains some overlap, but looks very different: 1. Bud Harrelson 13.6 2. Jerry Grote 11.2 One of the reasons Donn Clendenon was glad to be traded to the Mets was because of what he perceived as the Mets' dominant defensive strength up the middle, particularly the outstanding defense provided by Grote, Harrelson and Agee. In fact, Clendenon had already decided, before coming to the Mets, that Grote was the best defensive catcher in all of baseball. Better even than Bench. Ask Lou Brock. He'd agree with Donn. About Grote.

He's not the only one.

�If Jerry Grote played for the Reds, I'd be playing third base.� --- Johnny Bench (supposedly)

[batmagadanleadoff]

Edgy MD wrote: �If Jerry Grote played for the Reds, I'd be playing third base.� --- Johnny Bench (supposedly)

I had always known about that Bench comment. But I was never able to track down the source, or origin of the quote. And I've tried.

[Edgy MD]

Yo tambien.

Worth remembering, but yeah, worth getting to the bottom of before taking it authoritatively.

[Edgy MD]

Obviously we have a ways to go before building a broad confidence in defensive WAR, but it's interesting to see GroTAY within a good season of being the team's all-time top defender.

Some guys I mighta guessed before Cannizzaro:

Doug Flynn: 1.8
David Wright: 0.3
Mookie Wilson: 0.1
Lenny Dykstra: 2.6
Wayne Garrett: 3.3
Joel Youngblood: 0.8
Lee Mazzilli: -7.1 (!!!)

and of course Keith Hernandez: 0.4

[Frayed Knot]

btw, David Wright is currently 35th* in career WAR among active players (including pitchers) and, of those ahead of him on the list, only Miguel Cabrera is younger (by 4 months)

Of the top 50 active WAR-lords, only:
Cabrera 44.4 Total WAR -- will turn 30 in April
Wright 39.1 -- turned 30 in Dec
Joe Mauer 37.0 -- 30 in April
Robinson Cano 34.8 -- turned 30 in October
and Justin Verlander 33.6 -- turns 30 next week
have yet to play a game as a 30 year old, and all will do so by the opening month of the season. That will leave the under-30 WAR leader as ... Ryan Braun (assuming he can dodge the suspension fairy again this year).


* and really he's higher on the list than that as BB-Ref's 'Active' list includes several players who were active in some capacity in 2012 but aren't really active now:
Not = Manny Ramirez, Chipper Jones; Vlad Guerrero; Jamie Moyer; Omar Vizquel -- and they might be joined by several others: Rolen, Thome, Damon, Andruw, Oswalt, Giambi who may have already played their last MLB game, only they don't necessarily know it yet.

[Edgy MD]

Roy Staiger, 2.1 defensive WAR in 148 games as a Met.