Catching hell

[Frayed Knot]

That's just what the Mets are in right now: Catching Hell.

Exhibit A:
Thole has 6 hits (all singles) plus 5 BBs in 39 ABs during August [.154/.250/.154] - and the worst part is that that's not even the worst part.
Aside from those hits he's managed to get the ball out of the infield only five other times several of which are described as going to "short" whatever-field; IOW: weakly hit bloops.
His remaining August ABs consists of 22 infield ground-outs + 6 Ks. Not very august.

[Ceetar]

Thole was picking up the pace too.

I'm fine with a singles hitter with a high OBP, especially the guy probably most likely to be bunted over anyway. I'm fine with what he gave us last year (.268/.345/.344) maybe occasionally he learns to take big cuts in the right situations. but I'm tiring of looking for progress too, and I suspect the Mets are too, despite valuing the ability to have a catcher that doesn't make out as much as most. Problem is there aren't a lot of options. Thole's been given no meaningful sample against lefties, even career wise 152 AB. that's like one AB every other game he plays. over 4 years, but if you want to platoon him Shoppach or another lefty-masher with power type catcher, that's probably what we're headed towards.

Guys like Yadier Molina (who was Really bad in in 2006) took more time than Thole to become good hitting catchers. Maybe there's something to just all the different things they need to work on?

[Ceetar]

hmm...

how about Ryan Doumit?

He's a free agent. He's making 3 million this year as a DH/C/1B even some RF as a 1 year deal with the Twins after making 5 mill in his last arb year with the Pirates. He's actually taken a tick down from his 2011 numbers, so maybe he wouldn't be that expensive, although I don't know why with those numbers as a catcher he didn't get a multi-year deal.

He turns 32 in April, so not old. Hits righty. long career of very good catcher numbers. big slugger, .448 career. only a .335 OBP but that's better than Thole's doing this year.. And maybe with a little with Hudgens he bumps it up a tick.


he's 6th in OPS in the majors of anybody who qualifies for the batting title and has at least 10% of his games at catcher. .815

[Frayed Knot]

Molina in 2006 was more than 1-1/2 younger than Thole is now and was already a top-notch defensive catcher.

Thole's main asset (maybe his only one) is that he's a contact hitter. But, while his K-rate is still low, that asset is negated when the contact looks like it's being made with a rolled-up copy of an old Sporting News both on hits (.057 IsoP this season ... that's Castillo-esque power!) and outs (dribble-dribble).

Soon-to-be 26 year olds aren't supposed to regress like this and if they do it's not a good sign.

[Edgy MD]

Ceetar wrote: I'm fine with what he gave us last year (.268/.345/.344) maybe occasionally he learns to take big cuts in the right situations.

I might agree if he was regularly bringing value on defense.

But progress comes in fits and starts. Todd Hundley came up in 1990. It wasn't until they were ready to open the 1996 season with Brent Mayne that Todd became a dude.

The lesson? Don't just trust development to happen, but push your players in their development by always bringing in threatening alternatives. That, and to take lots and lots of steroids.

[Ceetar]

Edgy DC wrote: I'm fine with what he gave us last year (.268/.345/.344) maybe occasionally he learns to take big cuts in the right situations. I might agree if he was regularly bringing value on defense. But progress comes in fits and starts. Todd Hundley came up in 1990. It wasn't until they were ready to open the 1996 season with Brent Mayne that Todd became a dude.

I think he's up'd his value defensively. somewhat. I think he at least made progress, in a way Lucas Duda didn't. Too much I don't know about game-calling and that stuff though.

Edgy DC wrote: The lesson? Don't just trust development to happen, but push your players in their development by always bringing in threatening alternatives. That, and to take lots and lots of steroids.

How's that for a twist to the Shoppach trade?

Wonder where Santana would be if he juiced a little this season.

[Edgy MD]

Yeah, I definitely think that was a thought in the Shoppach trade, and I definitely think opening with Nickeas on the roster was an egg-on-the-face error.

[Frayed Knot]

Since I first posted this (3 games ago) Thole has gone 0-for-10 with three Ks, one walk (intentional), and one GiDP
He's gotten three balls out of the infield.

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Since I first posted this (3 games ago) Thole has gone 0-for-10 with three Ks, one walk (intentional), and one GiDP He's gotten three balls out of the infield.

I thought he really hit the ball hard today. just at people. I dunno.

[Frayed Knot]

Harder maybe. Not the same thing as hard.
Although two of the three times he got the ball out of the infield this week were in his final two ABs

[Ceetar]

Frayed Knot wrote: Harder maybe. Not the same thing as hard. Although two of the three times he got the ball out of the infield this week were in his final two ABs

well, if I recall he drove one into the outfield that i thought might fall in, and the other was a good 350 feet.

of course, we're well past "hey, he hit it hard at least" but just what I noted.

where was he on the passed ball/wild pitch today? Couldn't really tell from the stands. Usually you almost give him a pass considering Dickey though.

[Ceetar]

Also, Josh Thole came up to bat to "Who Let the Dogs Out" in his third at-bat today.

[Zvon]

Ceetar wrote: Thole was picking up the pace too. I'm fine with a singles hitter with a high OBP, especially the guy probably most likely to be bunted over anyway. I'm fine with what he gave us last year (.268/.345/.344) maybe occasionally he learns to take big cuts in the right situations. but I'm tiring of looking for progress too, and I suspect the Mets are too, despite valuing the ability to have a catcher that doesn't make out as much as most. Problem is there aren't a lot of options. Thole's been given no meaningful sample against lefties, even career wise 152 AB. that's like one AB every other game he plays. over 4 years, but if you want to platoon him Shoppach or another lefty-masher with power type catcher, that's probably what we're headed towards. Guys like Yadier Molina (who was Really bad in in 2006) took more time than Thole to become good hitting catchers. Maybe there's something to just all the different things they need to work on?

This is a very good post Ceetar. I like Thole a lot but unfortunately the things I like about him do not make him a better player. I also am tired of his lack of (or loss in) progress.

[Frayed Knot]

Thole ends August with 6 hits (all singles), 6 walks, and also 6 GiDPs
And I don't feel like going back and tracking how many of his outs actually made it out of the infield ... but that might be about 6 also.

Hell, Terry could have decided to just "Forfeit" his ABs each time he came up and it would have produced right about the same result for the team overall.