Holliday, Bay, and Defense (Split from Who's Your Guy?)

[Guest Edgy DC]

I'm in no hurry to go higher (or longer) on Bay.

[metirish]

I'm in no hurry to go higher (or longer) on Bay.[/quote:10adiphu]


I agree, but it does give a starting point...which will make Bay and his agent happy.

[Frayed Knot]

He also wouldn't be the first guy to turn down an offer only to find that the expected better ones aren't necessarily out there.
Bay's a nice hitter but, is already 31, plays a corner position (poorly), and doesn't have the really long track record that screams 'let's pay this guy cornerstone money into his mid/late-30s'

[Guest Vince Coleman Firecracker]

Sorry, I was trying to say I understood one system or the other made little distinction between the diving miss vs. the safe pullup in terms of punishment, since they both "missed" the ball even if one is a single and the other a game-tying triple. [/quote:34c3q78o]

Gotcha. Cool. But while different, specific, situations might favor an action that metrics would consider unfavorable, I don't see this as a reason to toss out or ignore those metrics. We can imagine scenarios when offensive metrics would favor an action that would actually be detrimental to a team's ability to win- let's say you're losing an extra-innings game, with no one left on the bench. Your best hitter is at the plate with a runner on and a sub-replacement hitting catcher on deck followed by a relief pitcher. A walk in this situation would, in terms of metrics, reward your best hitter and, at the same time, hurt your team's chances of winning. Does that mean we should ignore OBP?

And while there are many reasons to be skeptical of defensive metrics, there are also many serious reasons to be skeptical of our own perception of the game. And although each system has, as LWFS pointed out, its own set of red flags, we are lucky enough to have a ton of different systems available to us. In this case, the major defensive metrics have a consensus about Bay vs. Holliday's defensive ability, and I haven't seen any argument that persuades me of the opposite.

BTW, this discussion might warrant a thread split.

[Guest Edgy DC]

For the record, I wasn't being sarcastic. I was acknowledging that good defensive statistics can in part be a product of good coaching, but it's not worth sorting out, as we don't try and sort out good coaching from other performances.

[Guest John Cougar Lunchbucket]

And for the record I wasn't denouncing defensive stats, only those who'd be sarcastic in the face of their skeptics.

[Farmer Ted]

Tatis filed for FA today. What's not to like?

[Guest Edgy DC]

The Angels and the Giants have each announced a lack of interest in the Holliday/Bay wars.

I think Holliday is looking like the Mets' guy.

[ashie62]

Boras is talking 180 million for Holliday...which may translate into 7/105 in reality

It looks like Bay could very well be a Met. There seems to be more interest in the "180 million dollar man"

Then again a double dip recession in January?? Who knows

[ashie62]

Can the Obama Stimulus package have money assigned to Sterling Properties for player procurement?