Rico Brogna, Good Fit (and other ex-Met updates)

[Guest MFS62]

About the Ken Singleton interview.
When I read it, I was surprised to learn that Paul Olden is Black. Let me modify that - I wasn't surprised but it is no longer an issue I think about any more when I hear a good announcer. Why?
Because I remembered Billy Sample - once an outfielder with the Rangers.

MMYF and I were in the car and happened upon a post game radio show.
A player was being interviewed. We listened, enthralled by the player's voice. This voice wasn't just any voice, it was a true baritone instrument. And there was no "ballplayer speak" - he was clear and erudite.
At the end of the interview, we learned it was Sample. We agreed that when his playing career was through, he would have a great career in broadcasting. But I thought about stereotyping and really felt ashamed.

Sample later went on to work in the media, but it was as a writer - he had a sports column for USA Today. I read him for years, then one day he wrote that he was leaving, because he didn't like the fact that people he met for the first time were "surprised that a Black man had such good communicating skills" and opined that he may have been hired only because he was Black.

I wrote him a letter asking him not to resign; that he was hired because he was very good at what he did.

He never replied to my letter.

I wonder what he's doing these days, and I wonder what he thinks about the "in-your-face Blackness" of Steven A. Smith on ESPN/ ESPN Radio.

Later

[Guest Rotblatt]

Some tidbits about Gooden from Hardball Times:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ten-things-i-didnt-know-last-week20/

]Dwight Gooden threw a lot of pitches at a very young age. At Baseball Analysts, Rich Lederer has been having a discussion about Dwight Gooden's unrealized great career. The question, spurred by Bert Blyleven's comments about Gooden's drug use, is whether pitching too many innings was also a factor in his decline. Even sportswriter Bob Klapisch gave an opinion, claiming that Gooden's decline was totally due to drug abuse. There's no doubt that Gooden ruined his career (and, more importantly, his life) by taking drugs. But there's also very little doubt that he was overused at the tender ages of 18, 19 and 20. In that first year, 1983, he had an incredible record for Single A Lynchburg, striking out 300 and walking 112 in 191 innings. I applied Tangotiger's pitch count estimator to those numbers and found that Gooden threw an estimated 3,356 pitches at Lynchburg. So far this year, only three major league pitchers have thrown more often. As I said, he was 18 at the time. Mets' manager Davey Johnson saw Gooden pitch in the minors, and he convinced General Manager Frank Cashen that Gooden was ready for the major leagues in 1984. Johnson was right, as Gooden went on to compile a 2.60 ERA with 276 strikeouts in 218 innings. He threw approximately 3,475 pitches, including 15 games in which he probably threw over 120 pitches. I estimate that he threw 142 pitches on September 1 and 140 on July 27. He was 19. Next was 1985, the year Gooden dominated hitters as few pitchers ever have, with a 1.53 ERA and 268 strikeouts in 276 innings. That�s a lot of innings; in fact, only two major league pitchers have reached that mark since (Charlie Hough and Roger Clemens in 1987). Did I mention that he was 20 years old at the time? I estimate he threw 4,068 pitches that year, including 153 on October 2 after throwing 140 in his previous start. There were five games in which he threw at least 140 pitches. For a bit more perspective, I applied Baseball Prospectus's Pitcher Abuse Points (PAP) to Gooden's pitch count. BPro's research indicates that every pitch thrown in excess of 100 pitches in a start has a wearing effect on a pitcher's arm. In fact, it is exactly research like this that has led to a new understanding of how to handle young pitchers. According to PAP, Gooden racked up 437,598 PAP in 1984 when he was 19. This year, only strong-armed Livan Hernandez has surpassed that score. Carlos Zambrano is second at 160,000 (a total for which the Cubs' manager has been criticized by some Cubs' fans). In 1985, Gooden reached over 820,000 Pitcher Abuse Points. Baseball Prospectus doesn't have PAP stats for all years listed, but it appears as though that figure has been exceeded only once in the last 10 years, by the aforementioned Hernandez. I glanced through Davey Johnson's great book covering the 1985 season, Bats: The Man Behind the Miracle, and found several references to Gooden's workload. Johnson was aware of Gooden's workload; in fact, Cashen urged him to do something about it. Johnson didn't. ]Of course, I would prefer Doc only throw 250, 260 innings. But you have to take into account that Dwight doesn't throw as many pitches in a game as most power pitchers. He's unusual. Nolan Ryan will throw 150 pitches in a ballgame. Dwight seldom gets over 140. Most of the time it'll be between 100 and 130. So the strain is less. We certainly have a different attitude about pitch counts today, don't we? Nolan Ryan was truly unique in his ability to handle a large number of innings. But it's also worth noting that he was rested more often early in his career, and he didn't reach Gooden's level of Innings Pitched until the age of 25. I'm not saying that drugs didn't ruin Gooden's career. Of course they did. But if we don't also remember that Gooden was tremendously overworked at a very young age, we'll have forgotten an important lesson.

edited to take Edgy's suggestion about the block quotes.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Excellent, and worthy of a seperate thread. You may want to blockquote that exerpt form the Johnson book, so it's clear that Davey is speaking.

There's also lubitel's theory that the Mets hurt him by tinkering with his motion.

Klapisch seems pretty narrow-minded here. On the other hand, while Gooden's effectiveness waned, it's not like he had a full-scale elbow blowout.

[Guest sharpie]

]Bobby Bo had a better inaugural Mets' season than our current center fielder. Actually, Foster kind of did too

By what measure?

Bobby 19-70-.249-780
George 13-70-247-676
Carlos 15-71-260-817

Carlos has also stolen more bases and plays better defense.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

And you can't argue that more was expected of Carlos. The expectations for George and Bobby were equally high.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Measuring by OPS+

Foster: 90 in 608 plate appearances.
Bonilla: 121 in 506 plate appearances.

We'll look at Beltran soon enough.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Billy Sample hosts a streaming program at mlb.com, and also calls pre-season games for them.

He also participates in this program.

[Guest Elster88]

sharpie wrote: ]Bobby Bo had a better inaugural Mets' season than our current center fielder. Actually, Foster kind of did too By what measure? Bobby 19-70-.249-780 George 13-70-247-676 Carlos 15-71-260-817 Carlos has also stolen more bases and plays better defense.

Oops. For both of them I was thinking of their second seasons.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Ray Rippelmeyer, Mets roving minor league pitching coach, has been selected for induction into the Southeast Missouri State University Athletic Hall of Fame.

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Somebody submitted this memory to the UMDB:

I met Bruce Berenyi a couple of years ago at a Super Bowl party in Ft. Lauderdale, where he now lives. Apparently, he's one of a small number of former major league players who have come out as gay after their playing careers ended. When I met him, he was playing on a team in the Ft. Lauderdale gay softball league.

I haven't approved it, and won't unless I can get some official corroboration that this is true.

Anybody hear anything about this? As far as I know, the only "out" former player is the other Billy Bean. If Bruce Berenyi was on this short list, I'm sure I'd know about it.

[Guest Edgy DC]

Check this out. Under the headline "NAGAAA Cracks Down On Sandbagging."

[Guest ScarletKnight41]

Only a true gay icon would have found that kind of documentation.

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

="Yancy Street Gang"]Somebody submitted this memory to the UMDB: I met Bruce Berenyi a couple of years ago at a Super Bowl party in Ft. Lauderdale, where he now lives. Apparently, he's one of a small number of former major league players who have come out as gay after their playing careers ended. When I met him, he was playing on a team in the Ft. Lauderdale gay softball league. I haven't approved it, and won't unless I can get some official corroboration that this is true. Anybody hear anything about this? As far as I know, the only "out" former player is the other Billy Bean. If Bruce Berenyi was on this short list, I'm sure I'd know about it.

The late ex-Dodger Glenn Burke came out before he died of AIDS

AFAIK he and Bean are the only widely reported outed MLBers

[Guest Yancy Street Gang]

Edgy DC wrote: Check this out. Under the headline "NAGAAA Cracks Down On Sandbagging."

Wow. That site even has a (very) outdated link to the UMDB.

What do we all think? Is that good enough corroboration?

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

Old Friend Lenny Dykstra can be heard every Monday with Jim Cramer on his Real Money radio show (heard in NYC on 710 WOR

[url]http://www.thestreet.com/p/index.html[/url]

He's also been writing on TheStreet.com every Tuesday

[url]http://www.thestreet.com/_tscs/comment/nailsnumbers/10243337.html[/url]

Not the most WTF Stock Tipper of all time, that still belongs to former CNBC staffer John Leyfield, better known as WWE wrestler John Bradshaw Leyfield

Steve

[Guest cooby]

I just cannot imagine taking stock tips from Lenny. Though they are certainly well written.

[Guest Edgy DC]

What are you particularly worried about? Is it technically outing by printing a report that he's out?

If it's important, call the NAGAAAA and confirm it with them.

[Guest Johnny Dickshot]

Wow.

Well, his name was Bruce...

[Guest cooby]

Here's Mackey...




http://www.wallace.edu/athletics/baseball/

You can even email him if you wish

http://www.wallace.edu/staff/mailer.php?id1=Sasser&id2=Mackey

[Guest Edgy DC]

Nice job. That huge chin is unmistakeable.

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

cooby wrote: Here's Mackey...

Funny story about Sasser.

In the summer of 98, Piazza is struggling in his first summer at Shea. A caller calls up Ian Eagle on a WFAN weekend evening show and rips Piazza's streakiness and lack of throwing runners out (gee the more things change around here...) and calls him a "Glorified Mackey Sasser"

Okay, I guess mildly amusing, I mean even back then Piazza was Future HOFer material, and of course Mackey was a servicable backstop untill he couldn't throw the ball back to the mound anymore!

Steve

[Guest Edgy DC]

Mike Piazza never struggled that summer.

Month	BA	OBP	SLG	OpS
May	.419	.455	.484	.939
June	.318	.365	.511	.876
July	.326	.421	.576	.997
August	.347	.414	.663	1.077
September	.378	.457	.720	1.177

June was the worst he did. I'd take a career of that from my next catcher in a heartbeat.

[Guest mlbaseballtalk]

]Mike Piazza never struggled that summer. Month BA OBP SLG OpS May .419 .455 .484 .939 June .318 .365 .511 .876 July .326 .421 .576 .997 August .347 .414 .663 1.077 September .378 .457 .720 1.177 June was the worst he did. I'd take a career of that from my next catcher in a heartbeat.

Well that is true, but the perception at the time was that he was having a bad stretch and wasn't living up to expectations and not handling the pressure of being in NY

So you had callers calling up WFAN every day wondering why we got him in the first place and there really was questions about wheither we SHOULD lock him up to ANY sort of deal in the winter

True story I don't recall the Listserv and/or Metsonline.com's board if they were being the same way, but you did hear alot of yahoos saying they were having fun booing Piazza at Shea that summer on WFAN. Another funny one was this guy gleefully say he was seeing tons of little kids wearing Piazza shirts that were booing Piazza (obviously the kids were too young to even know or appreciate Mike Piazza so they were joining the lemmings that summer)


Steve

[Guest cooby]

Edgy DC wrote: Nice job. That huge chin is unmistakeable.

Yeah, Mackey was a family favorite sometime around 1990. My daughter even got a little postcard from him, I think I still have it somewhere

[Guest metirish]

Strawberry in trouble again...

]By Associated Press September 29, 2005, 7:04 AM EDT DELRAY BEACH, Fla. -- Former baseball star Darryl Strawberry was charged with filing a false police report after investigators watching a gas station surveillance video saw him drive off in a different sport utility vehicle than the one he reported stolen, The Palm Beach Post reported on its Web site Thursday. Strawberry told a detective Wednesday that he lied when he reported on Sept. 17 that his rental SUV, a silver Nissan Murano, was stolen from a Delray Beach gas station. But in a surveillance video of the gas station viewed by investigators, Strawberry appeared to be the passenger in a Land Rover driven by a woman, police said. The video also showed him purchasing items in the station's convenience store, then getting back into the vehicle and leaving, according to police. Strawberry, 43, was charged with filing a false police report, and is scheduled to appear in court Oct. 27. Strawberry told The Palm Beach Post that he "didn't want to make a public thing out of it." Detective Nicole Guerriero told the newspaper that she spoke to a tipster who said Strawberry's SUV was behind a Lake Worth sports bar, where police later found it. According to a police report, the woman who allegedly left with the vehicle said she met Strawberry at a motel and he gave her the keys to his SUV, which she turned over to authorities. "He didn't say what happened to the vehicle," Guerriero said. "Somehow it got into someone else's possession." A phone message left early Thursday for a Delray Beach Police spokesman wasn't immediately returned.

[Guest Edgy DC]

]Well that is true, but the perception at the time was that he was having a bad stretch and wasn't living up to expectations and not handling the pressure of being in NY.

Yahoos have a way of making so much noise as to cause people to mistake their braying for fact. Those boobirds were undercutting a fine team.

[Guest Elster88]

Maybe we could make it a policy that Strawberry is assumed to be in some kind of trouble until we hear otherwise.

[Guest MFS62]

]Red Sox acquire Stanton for final four games BOSTON (AP) � The Red Sox acquired left-hander Mike Stanton from the Washington Nationals on Thursday for right-handers Rhys Taylor and Yader Peralta. Boston's trade means Stanton could wind up pitching this weekend against his former team, the New York Yankees. If the Red Sox advance to the playoffs, Stanton would not be eligible for the postseason roster. Stanton, who is 38, started the season with the Yankees and was cut June 30 after going 1-2 with a 7.08 ERA in 14 innings over 28 relief appearances. He signed with Washington on July 13 and went 2-1 with a 3.58 ERA in 27 2-3 innings over 30 games.

Their bullpen must really be in a bad way.

Later

[Guest Edgy DC]

I expected that one or both of these teams would hit the trade market going into this series. Part of me wondered if Trachsel might be a Sock or a Yankee before last night.

Of course, Cleveland and Boston can block a Yankee deal. Today, with the Yankees ahead of Boston and Cleveland tied with them, may have been the only time that Boston could've snuck the deal through unblocked.

[Guest cooby]

MFS62 wrote: Their bullpen must really be in a bad way. Later

Well, it is now...